LOST sixth and final season

[darockwilder]

Originally Posted by Madman

So, how did Ben get out from under the tree?

That's been bugging me too. It went from being too heavy to move, then they're all just running along no problem like it never happened.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by darockwilder

That's been bugging me too. It went from being too heavy to move, then they're all just running along no problem like it never happened.

I assumed when the island shook, it shook the tree free? My guess anyway, it was odd that they even threw that bit in at all.

[HPLovecraft]

They likely couldn't fit in whatever happened during the already lengthy 2 and a half hours of the show. I hear they're adding about 20 minutes or so to that episode for the DVD release (such as a scene with Walt they had shot), so it'll likely be included on that.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

This isn't my view on why Faraday remained behind in "sideways purgatory."

The H-bomb didn't create the "AR." There is no AR. There is only a spiritual waiting room, of sorts. It was created by the characters on the island, their souls, their memories, and their thoughts. All the H-bomb did was send the characters ahead in time and create the "incident" that required the button to be pushed. The writers wanted us to "think" there was an AR during the season until the final reveal of the truth of it.

My thoughts on Faraday not being able to "move on," as it were, is that he just wasn't ready. Just like Ben not going inside the Church with the others because he had to deal with what he did to Goodwin, etc., Faraday wasn't ready to go into the light. He still had things to deal with that he hadn't come to terms with yet. I would think it would have to do with his former girlfriend's death during his time-travel experiments, and Charlotte's death. He hadn't come to terms with them yet. He needed to go to them, and awaken them, and make amends. He wasn't "connected" to Jack, Desmond, Locke, et al. He wasn't in the plane that originally brought everyone to the Island. He wasn't tied to them as they were to each other. This goes for Ana Lucia (even though she was on the plane), too, and Dogen, etc.

Farday's mother couldn't "move on" because she still hadn't been able to come to terms with killing her son. Once she's done so, she can leave. She wasn't holding Daniel back. He, himself, was.

Then why did they not remember each other in the purgatory if they created it? Why did they need those touches? For the tear-jerk effect I guess?

One more thing...about Desmond being special (I don't remember who said that about him, was it Jacob?). He was special in the sense that he could "flash" between real life and purgatory FS? In a sense he was dead and alive at the same time, am I right? As far fetched as that is, how could anyone (Jacob?) know he's capable of it?

I think the theory that losties somehow created AR is weak...

[Flame Of Liberty]

Also the whole "let go" dealio, take the Kwons, in real life Jin never saw his daughter, he and his wife died together. In AR they're fine, their baby is on the way...and just like that they decide to let go? I.e. to leave the purgatory? What?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by darockwilder

That's been bugging me too. It went from being too heavy to move, then they're all just running along no problem like it never happened.

The Island wasn't done with him yet . . . that is all.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Barnes

4. Carlton and Damon have promised they will answer the food drops.

Unless I totally missed that, they did not explain food drops did they?

[Flame Of Liberty]

Another thing, Jacob said it was his mistake that created the smoke monster, when he threw MiB into the cave. Mother said going to the source of light is worse than death (presumably she meant one would turn into a smoke monster). Then why did Jack not turn into smoke a monster too?

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Another thing, Jacob said it was his mistake that created the smoke monster, when he threw MiB into the cave. Mother said going to the source of light is worse than death (presumably she meant one would turn into a smoke monster). Then why did Jack not turn into smoke a monster too?

I was wondering the exact same thing.

And I thought there was a skeleton down there when Desmond first went down. Didn't see it when Jack went down. MiB's body was ejected and Jack was also spit out. Probably just a meaningless prop but why put it in then.

[sa226]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Another thing, Jacob said it was his mistake that created the smoke monster, when he threw MiB into the cave. Mother said going to the source of light is worse than death (presumably she meant one would turn into a smoke monster). Then why did Jack not turn into smoke a monster too?

I think it has to do with Desmond being the key. Whatever it was with him he was the only one that could withstand going "into the light". I think that is what Widmore was doing with him with the electromagnetic testing.

So Desmond removed the plug thing allowing the smoke dude to be killed, but also destroying the island. When Jack went down the light wasn't technically on, he turned it back on, and saved the island in the process.

As for him lying in the light pool thing after he replaced the plug....I don't know why that didn't do anything to him....maybe that is what killed him, not the stab wound.

Just guesses

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Then why did they not remember each other in the purgatory if they created it? Why did they need those touches? For the tear-jerk effect I guess?

One more thing...about Desmond being special (I don't remember who said that about him, was it Jacob?). He was special in the sense that he could "flash" between real life and purgatory FS? In a sense he was dead and alive at the same time, am I right? As far fetched as that is, how could anyone (Jacob?) know he's capable of it?

I think the theory that losties somehow created AR is weak...

It's not weak. Christian said it himself. It was stated outright for us. It's a spiritual waiting-room they created so they could reunite before passing into the afterlife. It's metaphysical, not atom splitting.

[atb]

CollegeHumor on the unanswered questions: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

[gottabekd]

I didn't notice anyone else posting this, but...I might have missed it.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/show...sh-images.html

You know those Oceanic 815 plane crash images that ran after Jack's (Matthew Fox) eye closed and the "Lost" logo appeared on our TV screens? Some "Lost" fans and TV critics have wondered if they were a last Easter egg from the producers, a clue meant to lead us to conclude that no one survived Oceanic 815's crash landing — and therefore everything we've seen over the last six years never really happened.

Well, ABC wants to clear the air: Those photographs were not part of the "Lost" story at all. The network added them to soften the transition from the moving ending of the series to the 11 p.m. news and never considered that it would confuse viewers about the actual ending of the show.

I was watching CTV, so didn't see this image. After hearing (and seeing) this, I could definitely see how one would be lead to believe that the Losties died in the original place crash.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by gottabekd

I didn't notice anyone else posting this, but...I might have missed it.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/show...sh-images.html



I was watching CTV, so didn't see this image. After hearing (and seeing) this, I could definitely see how one would be lead to believe that the Losties died in the original place crash.

It fooled me at first. . . . God-damn it, you'd think ABC would have learned after 6 years that Lost fans over-analyze EVERYTHING.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

So, what you're saying is, since the writers of Lost didn't write your exact ending theory, you didn't like it?.

No that is not what I am saying. I also didn't say I didn't like it. I said it was acceptable and didn't make me want to break my TV set. As I said above it was actually better then I expected.

That said i think the purgatory ending was self indulgent and I will elaborate what I mean. Essentially it allowed the writers to give each character a happy ending and redemption after years of torturing them on the island. Did Ben deserve a second chance to make things right with the French women and her/his daughter? Did Sayid deserve his second/third/forth chance at being a good person? Did the other losties deserve different lives that they just got to make themselves. One thing I liked about this show is that it was harsh. People we like died. It wasn't just a feel good show of the week.

When it was an AR of what the world would have been like if Jacob hadn't interfered to that provided an interesting foil for the characters on the island instead when it is just lives they created for them so that the writers of the show could write a happy ending to me is self indulgent.

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

The Science vs Faith theme didn't fade away in the ending seasons. In fact, it actually resolved itself. Faith won, science lost. That's it. There was a victor in the end. How many other shows can say that?

To me at the end of season 4 the science v faith disappeared alot and the show became plot driven rather than charactor/theme driven. Then in the last 3 shows of this season that theme became prominant again. It just felt inconsistant.

[Hemi-Cuda]

this was posted on another forum i frequent, apparently originating from a writer on LOST. no way to know if it's actually truth but the explanations are very good and does a good job of summing up the big picture

An Anonymous Lost Writer from Bad Robot sums up the Lost Finale Beautifully:

First �

The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people�s heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a �Protector�. Jacob wasn�t the first, Hurley won�t be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him � even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob�s plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn�t do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet every time he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn�t take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma � which I�m not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interfered by �corrupting� Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben�s �off-island� activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the �Others� killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that�s what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn�t do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB�s corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Candidates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Candidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That�s a question that is purposely not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still � Dharma�s purpose is not �pointless� or even vague. Hell, it�s pretty blatent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his �candidates� (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of �candidates� through the decades and letting them �choose� which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Fake Locke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn�t. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector � I know that�s how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won�t answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he�d always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we�ll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on �

Now�

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least � because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer�s room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we�re all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it�s not exactly the best word). But these people we�re linked to are with us duing �the most important moments of our lives� as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It�s loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this �sideways� world where they exist in purgatory until they are �awakened� and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show�s concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own �Sideways� purgatory with their �soulmates� throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That�s a beautiful notion. Even if you aren�t religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It�s a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events � not JUST because of Jacob. But because that�s what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith � and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

[Hemi-Cuda]

cont...

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that�s THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer�s took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways �purgatory� with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn�t allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died � some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley�s case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are �awakened� and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren�t in the chuch � basically everyone who wasn�t in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here�s where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It�s possible that those links aren�t people from the island but from their other life (Anna�s parnter, the guy she shot �- Roussou�s husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn�t go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can�t move on yet because he hasn�t connected with the people he needs to. It�s going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley�s number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It�s really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more �behind the scenes� note: the reason Ben�s not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn�t believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It�s pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church � but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church � and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder � the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ�s ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I�ve been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I�ve loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PA's, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spiritual questions that most shows don�t touch. And to me, they never once wavered from their core story � even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

-Anonymous Lost Writer

[edn88]

Well, if that guy was an insider or not, he pretty much nailed it as far as I am concerned.

I may have to send that to my wife so she can finally get it too.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by GGG

No that is not what I am saying. I also didn't say I didn't like it. I said it was acceptable and didn't make me want to break my TV set. As I said above it was actually better then I expected.

That said i think the purgatory ending was self indulgent and I will elaborate what I mean. Essentially it allowed the writers to give each character a happy ending and redemption after years of torturing them on the island. Did Ben deserve a second chance to make things right with the French women and her/his daughter? Did Sayid deserve his second/third/forth chance at being a good person? Did the other losties deserve different lives that they just got to make themselves. One thing I liked about this show is that it was harsh. People we like died. It wasn't just a feel good show of the week.

When it was an AR of what the world would have been like if Jacob hadn't interfered to that provided an interesting foil for the characters on the island instead when it is just lives they created for them so that the writers of the show could write a happy ending to me is self indulgent.





To me at the end of season 4 the science v faith disappeared alot and the show became plot driven rather than charactor/theme driven. Then in the last 3 shows of this season that theme became prominant again. It just felt inconsistant.

Sue, I guess. If you find the realization that all of them are actually DEAD a happy ending.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

It's not weak. Christian said it himself. It was stated outright for us. It's a spiritual waiting-room they created so they could reunite before passing into the afterlife. It's metaphysical, not atom splitting.

I know he said it, but still it doesn't make much sense even if they created it subconsciously so they could reunite before passing into the afterlife. Basically, in the waiting room they had what they did not have in the real life (Jack had his father/son relationship, Ben could protect/be with his daughter and atone for his sins etc).

But what's Kate's story there? She was the same broken, lonely criminal she was in real life, she didn't "redeem" her real life, did she? How did she realize she needs to let go? Splitting hair I suppose, but I gotta say I like ending more and more I think about it.

The anonymous lost writer take is the best I've read so far.