A few thoughts after re-watching this week's episode:
I think smokey was always around, I don't think Jacob's brother is Smokey, I think Smokey was using Jacob's brother's image. Like he's using Locke's. I also believe that Smokey was around prior to Jacob's brother going into the tunnel of light.
How could their mother pull her son up from where the wheel is, and cover the tunnel? Plus kill the entire village and set it ablaze all while making it back to her camp to spend time with Jacob? I think that was done by smokey. You do see thick black smoke. Hrmmm.
Also when the mother is killed you hear the horn of the smoke monster.
What about MiB being able to see his real mother? Again, the smoke monster? You didn't hear whispers which would mean it was her spirit. I think that was smokey setting up his play.
As for Jacob, I think there's another type of smoke monster, perhaps a light monster? One that took the form of Jacob after he died, but also got all his memories and such like smokey gets after taking the form of MiB/Locke.
MiB parallels Locke in the sense he believed in an idea and was foolish enough to believe it blindly. Locke wanted to say at all costs no matter what, whereas MiB wanted to leave, but at the end of the day they had a simple mindset.
Jacob was very subordinate through the entire episode, there was no confidence, no self-assurance. Easily told what to do and pushed around, quick to anger and wanted to force what he was told onto his brother. Now Jacob we know was very confident, in control, and reasonable. Both believed in people and the good in people.
Perhaps Jacob dies and the light takes control, whereas when MiB died the dark took control?
Also of note when MiB killed his mother she never said a word to him. Could he have been dead and the darkness took him over (like Claire & Syhid?) Maybe only someone with darkness in their soul can kill? Of note Ben also "died" and was brought back to life only to become evil from good.
This post isn't overly coherent, just putting thoughts down for discussion.
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Also of note when MiB killed his mother she never said a word to him.
Didn't she say "finally" or "thank you" or something?
I also think that momma saying "i made it so you two can't hurt each other" and later the brother saying to Jacob "you can make your own game and then have your own rules" are huge clues.
Its interesting, I've had some time to think about things a bit.
Mommy dearest said that the light was the light of life and it was in every person. If something happens to the light, it effects all living things.
We know that there's always a counter point to everything. if that light is the light of life, then theres always going to be the counter which is darkness which can put out the light.
she warned Jacob not to go in, but he had to protect it.
I kinda theorize that when MIB body was slid into that tunnel there was some corruption and the smoke monster was not released, but was created.
Up until that point there wasn't a smog monster, and it can take the form of dead people.
I think mommy dearest did all of the killing herself, she also buried the hole. Eventually someone will get the idea of putting the wheel in, hopefully we'll find out who. in the next two episodes.
Now, we kinda know that as Jacob's mission is to protect the light. So to an extent he has to protect the energy or light on the Island and he also has then has the mission to protect the light everywhere, which means life outside of the Island.
I theorize that Jacob put the turn wheel in as it gave him the ability to move through time and space to leave the Island to go visit candidates. MIB doesn't have that ability because he's not human.
I also theorize that Smoke monster believes that he's MIB, he's following the mission to go accross the sea, and in order to do that there can't be any candidates protecting the energy or light that he needs to leave to Island.
When they talk about everyone that close to them dying if Locke gets off of the Island it makes sense as smoke monster represents the darkness that can snuff the light. I figure that if he gets off of the Island he snuffs out all of the light thats in every person as described by his mother.
I don't believe he knows this, I believe he's driven by anger at being kept from going off of the Island. remember when he said that he would like the kill Jacob, thats because not only does he need him dead, but he feels that sense of betrayal from Jacobs actions.
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i'm quite disappointed in this season. most of the fan theories to the Lost story are cooler than some magical light, that last episode came across as a bad Disney movie. or even Scooby-Doo
i have pretty much zero hopes for the finale now, they don't really seem to have any coherent story that they're sticking to and instead are frantically trying to tie up loose ends, but it's coming across as so random
i'm quite disappointed in this season. most of the fan theories to the Lost story are cooler than some magical light, that last episode came across as a bad Disney movie. or even Scooby-Doo
i have pretty much zero hopes for the finale now, they don't really seem to have any coherent story that they're sticking to and instead are frantically trying to tie up loose ends, but it's coming across as so random
I agree with the bolded part, I couldn't believe it when I saw the whole...magical light in a cave thing. And the MiB "building" his way out of the island by...connecting the wheel..to the...light? Did I get that right? How...why? How could he possibly come up with that? Because he's special?
And I can't help myself..but adult Jacob looks mentally challenged...far from a chosen one to protect the island. And the whole mother&MiB thing was morbid...no burial, cuddle them up and make them hold their hands? Really? She killed his mother and he killed her and you arrange them like two lovebirds who tragically died in Pompei?
Terrible episode IMO. Terrible.
Last edited by Flame Of Liberty; 05-12-2010 at 04:33 PM.
I can't believe I read even a single opinion from a person that enjoyed that episode. After the buildup it got in the press and the fact that it's the third to last episode, that was HUGELY disappointing. Like first-half-of-season-three bad. The only way that hour could have been worse would have been an hour of Rose and Bernard cuddling.
I am disappointed they chose mysticism over quasi science. I don't see how the protect the light religious theme can be paired up with the quasi science electromagnitism time travel split reality theme.
The electromagneting force that Jack and company nuked was really the life force of humanity. And if blowing up that life force created AR then why is their happiness and hope their and not just misery because it that universe the light would have been destroyed.
In the end I perfer my solution to the island of MIB and someone and the island being sent back in time by an electromagnetic event created by desmond creating a time loop thus allowing the AR reality to continue and be the real reality. A dark tower ending where the initial conditions of the battle between Jacob and MIB (who I really want to call Esau now) are changed slightly.
For the last 3 years though I have been watching it preparing to be disappointed.
One thing I'm reverting back to keeping hope is Dark UFO has had prerecorded scores and grades for every episode this year from people who have seen the episode or read the script for it. These scores have been extremely accurate with viewers grades of the episode after it airs.
The series finale scored the highest of the entire season with an average score of 9.7 with two critics giving it a 10, which has not been handed out by any critic the entire season.
I've always said I'll judge this show by the entire body of work once it's all finished.
I found this episode a gigantic bore fest, what a letdown. The "concepts" are not interesting, and sure as heck not original. I'll give the show a chance only because I've been in it from the beginning, but that just flat out sucked.
A cave with a light? And don't go in there! Seriously? Eve don't touch that apple! It's the greatest thing ever but just don't. SNORE.
I think Lost is suffering a bit from the "Chris Carter Effect", which is to say that there are so many dangling plot lines, so many times that a question was answered with yet another question, so many things to wrap up in a scant 3 hours of remaining television, that the audience is concerned (and rightly so) that many of the plot lines will never be resolved.
I have faith that the plot lines from season 6 (this season) will be more or less wrapped up. But there seems to be a fundamental disconnect as between this season and the previous five. I don't believe for an instant that this whole Jacob vs. MiB thing has been planned from the outset. They tried to convince me otherwise by making MiB and "Mom" Adam and Eve, but I think that backfired huge. Many will recall in season one when they originally found the skeletons that Jack said they were likely no more than 40-50 years old. Unless the healing powers of the Island prevent regular decomposition, I'm not sure how the producers get around that. I think this can be used as evidence that the whole Jacob v.s MiB thing was conceived of late in the 5th season (last year) and was never planned at the outset.
As such, I am very concerned that the show is now concentrating on that lately developed plot line to the utter neglect of other dangling threads from previous years. Here are my questions from previous seasons that I would like answered, but have no confidence we will ever get an answer for:
1. Just what the hell are those numbers about, anyway? They've given some hints but never a good explanation. Is it the key to existence or something like that?
2. Why can't pregnant women who conceived on the island give birth on the island? This was a major mystery throughout the whole of season 3, which appears to have been conveniently forgotten. Is it punishment from the Island/Jacob against Ben and the Others for the purge? Does it have anything to do with the destruction of the huge statue of the Egyptian god of fertility? Why are women who get pregnant off the island exempted (Claire)?
3. How did Radzinsky survive the purge and why did the Others leave him and his partner alone down in the Hatch for so long? Did the Others actually know they were saving the world by pressing the button every 108 minutes and that's why they left them alone?
4. Who was continuing to supply the Island with Dharma foodstuffs and supplies (as seen in season 2 Lockdown)?
5. What about Walt's "weird" powers? How does that fit in with the mythology?
Last edited by IntenseFan; 05-13-2010 at 10:43 AM.
A few thoughts after re-watching this week's episode:
How could their mother pull her son up from where the wheel is, and cover the tunnel? Plus kill the entire village and set it ablaze all while making it back to her camp to spend time with Jacob? I think that was done by smokey. You do see thick black smoke. Hrmmm.
Also when the mother is killed you hear the horn of the smoke monster.
I like that analysis! Also, MIB uses "the knife" and she didn't have a chance to speak to him; both prerequisites to kill smokey.
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I theorize that Jacob put the turn wheel in as it gave him the ability to move through time and space to leave the Island to go visit candidates. MIB doesn't have that ability because he's not human.
Well Jacob and MIB have some kind of wager going on. So I think MIB directed Jacob to put the wheel in place so that they can complete their wager.
It's also possible some civilization did it under MIB influence. There is still the issues of the statues and temples. At one ponit there must be a fairly large civlization on the island. My guess is that MIB convinces them to worship him like a god and then build the wheel. Either that or they worship both Jacob and MIB.
Well Jacob and MIB have some kind of wager going on. So I think MIB directed Jacob to put the wheel in place so that they can complete their wager.
It's also possible some civilization did it under MIB influence. There is still the issues of the statues and temples. At one ponit there must be a fairly large civlization on the island. My guess is that MIB convinces them to worship him like a god and then build the wheel. Either that or they worship both Jacob and MIB.
I still go back to when Jacob and his brother were playing the game and Jacob was whining about the rules, and MIB jr basically said that he could define his own rules when he gets older.
That game board and the black and white game pieces I believe are going to eventually be key to figuring this whole mess out.
I think the mirror in the light house allowed JAcob to watch and select his candidates. I believe that the wheel allowed him to move off of the Island. Thats why Jacob didn't appear to Jack or Kate when they left the Island. Because it had been destroyed.
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I think the mirror in the light house allowed JAcob to watch and select his candidates. I believe that the wheel allowed him to move off of the Island. Thats why Jacob didn't appear to Jack or Kate when they left the Island. Because it had been destroyed.
Didn't Locke fix it by tunring the wheel again? Also didn't Jacob appear to Sayid after he left the island? (Or are you talking about the AR?)
^ Not to worry. Given the roving timeline of flashbacks and forwards in the first four seasons, coupled with the time travel in season 5 and I don't think anyone can keep the timelines straight.
I think Lost is suffering a bit from the "Chris Carter Effect", which is to say that there are so many dangling plot lines, so many times that a question was answered with yet another question, so many things to wrap up in a scant 3 hours of remaining television, that the audience is concerned (and rightly so) that many of the plot lines will never be resolved.
I have faith that the plot lines from season 6 (this season) will be more or less wrapped up. But there seems to be a fundamental disconnect as between this season and the previous five. I don't believe for an instant that this whole Jacob vs. MiB thing has been planned from the outset. They tried to convince me otherwise by making MiB and "Mom" Adam and Eve, but I think that backfired huge. Many will recall in season one when they originally found the skeletons that Jack said they were likely no more than 40-50 years old. Unless the healing powers of the Island prevent regular decomposition, I'm not sure how the producers get around that. I think this can be used as evidence that the whole Jacob v.s MiB thing was conceived of late in the 5th season (last year) and was never planned at the outset.
As such, I am very concerned that the show is now concentrating on that lately developed plot line to the utter neglect of other dangling threads from previous years. Here are my questions from previous seasons that I would like answered, but have no confidence we will ever get an answer for:
1. Just what the hell are those numbers about, anyway? They've given some hints but never a good explanation. Is it the key to existence or something like that?
2. Why can't pregnant women who conceived on the island give birth on the island? This was a major mystery throughout the whole of season 3, which appears to have been conveniently forgotten. Is it punishment from the Island/Jacob against Ben and the Others for the purge? Does it have anything to do with the destruction of the huge statue of the Egyptian god of fertility? Why are women who get pregnant off the island exempted (Claire)?
3. How did Radzinsky survive the purge and why did the Others leave him and his partner alone down in the Hatch for so long? Did the Others actually know they were saving the world by pressing the button every 108 minutes and that's why they left them alone?
4. Who was continuing to supply the Island with Dharma foodstuffs and supplies (as seen in season 2 Lockdown)?
5. What about Walt's "weird" powers? How does that fit in with the mythology?
1. The numbers are the core human and environmental values of the Valenzetti equation which calculates the end of human existence. The purpose of the Dharma initiative was to use the island's unique properties to try and change the environmental values so that that time could be extended.
2. There is no actual proof that anything happens to a woman or the baby. Arron was born and Sun survived past 100 days so maybe it was not true? Just a way to get Juliette to the island?
3. The Others did not know the location as per the official podcast. They could see inside from the Pearl Station though so they knew it was there.
4. Carlton and Damon have promised they will answer the food drops.
Last edited by Barnes; 05-13-2010 at 01:19 PM.
Reason: correction
It's nice to get some closure on the whole adam and eve mystery. I don't know but when the first baby was born and she said his name is Jacob and then the next baby comes out and I'm sitting in anticipation looking forward to hearing his name and then...oh yeah I only thought of one name oops..what the hell you dumb woman you seriously can't come up with a name? Call him Jimmy Bob I don't care just name him damn it.
It's nice to get some closure on the whole adam and eve mystery. I don't know but when the first baby was born and she said his name is Jacob and then the next baby comes out and I'm sitting in anticipation looking forward to hearing his name and then...oh yeah I only thought of one name oops..what the hell you dumb woman you seriously can't come up with a name? Call him Jimmy Bob I don't care just name him damn it.
Well his name is obviously of some great significance....gotta love Lost.
