How players Sutter has drafted as the Flames GM are doing this season

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

I wasn't talking about you specifically Roof Daddy.

Jiri, Detroit would be in a better position had they not lost Hudler, but you are right about them. For every pick like Kane, Toews, Barker and to a lesser extent Seabrook, Chicago has drafted Keith, Byfuglien, Versteeg, Bolland, Hjalmarsson and perhaps even Niemi late.

Cool.

That is quite a list of solid picks by the Hawks, but for the record, the Bruins are actually the team that drafted Versteeg. Traded him and a pick to Chicago for Brandon Bochenski.

[Cactus Jack]

You are right, my bad. But that is another category - unheralded free agent signings and low profile trades. We lost Dennis Wideman to Boston for nothing. Chicago picked up guys like Versteeg and Sharp in trades that garnered little attention and both Atlanta and Anaheim picked up a little known Chris Kunitz off waivers from each other a few times.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by dobbles

while there is a lot of merit to what you are saying, i think the backlash of how thats all detroit has done is starting to become a similar myth.
.

I'm not saying that's all they've done - but the pipeline isn't flowing like it once was - and guys that were at one point very highly touted are suddenly not developing as expected (Kindl, Howard to name two).

They do carry the advantage that they are a team players want to go to. That helps with a guy like Leino who had interest from more than one NHL club, including according to one person I talked to...the Flames.

There's no question that some teams are drafting better than others - and some of the teams mentioned in this thread are perfect examples. However the vast majority of clubs have a lot of misses to go with some occasional hits.

Part of why the Flames drafting looks not as good as because the team hasn't had open spots on the big club (whether or not that is smart is another debate altogether I think).

Right now I think there are a number of guys on the farm that could be up with the Flames and playing: Sutter, Vandergulik, Pelech, maybe even Chucko. So add a couple of those names to the mix and suddenly the drafting looks better. Heck in some organizations Backlund would be up with the big club even though he's not ready.

When you look at where the Flames have picked and the number of picks overall they've had (from trading away a bunch) - I think the cupboard is in relatively good shape.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

You are right, my bad. But that is another category - unheralded free agent signings and low profile trades. We lost Dennis Wideman to Boston for nothing. Chicago picked up guys like Versteeg and Sharp in trades that garnered little attention and both Atlanta and Anaheim picked up a little known Chris Kunitz off waivers from each other a few times.

With Wideman the Flames had him at a dev camp and were interested in signing him - but he chose to sign with the Blues instead. So it was rather out of their control.

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yep. Our drafting sucks big time.

Only four guys playing on our NHL roster right now that Sutter drafted: (Phaneuf, Boyd, Prust and Pardy. Five if you count Gio, whom Sutter signed after he went un-drafted.)

Also, only three other guys playing on our roster that were drafted by the Flames pre-Sutter: (Moss, Nystrom and McElhinney)

That's pathetic......only eight NHLers on our roster that we drafted.....and they all SUCK anyways.

Not to mention that we don't have ANY guys on the farm who are almost ready to be full time NHLers.........like Irving, Backlund, Pelech, Negrin, Van der Gulik, Sutter, Chucko and J.Armstrong.....horrible prospect pool.

How come we never draft any good players like Kane, Toews, Stamkos etc......? I mean other than the fact that we have a competetive team every year and never get to draft higher than 20th overall????

Those guys you mentioned were drafted so high.... ie: Top 5 picks.. Flames usually draft their player from 12th pick or higher.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I'm not saying that's all they've done - but the pipeline isn't flowing like it once was - and guys that were at one point very highly touted are suddenly not developing as expected (Kindl, Howard to name two).

They do carry the advantage that they are a team players want to go to. That helps with a guy like Leino who had interest from more than one NHL club, including according to one person I talked to...the Flames.

There's no question that some teams are drafting better than others - and some of the teams mentioned in this thread are perfect examples. However the vast majority of clubs have a lot of misses to go with some occasional hits.

Part of why the Flames drafting looks not as good as because the team hasn't had open spots on the big club (whether or not that is smart is another debate altogether I think).

Right now I think there are a number of guys on the farm that could be up with the Flames and playing: Sutter, Vandergulik, Pelech, maybe even Chucko. So add a couple of those names to the mix and suddenly the drafting looks better. Heck in some organizations Backlund would be up with the big club even though he's not ready.

When you look at where the Flames have picked and the number of picks overall they've had (from trading away a bunch) - I think the cupboard is in relatively good shape.

not a whole lot i can disagree with here. and i wasn't implying you were particularly a part of people dissing the wings drafting, just noting its starting to become a pretty similar myth to the one about how great it was in the first place.

and i think you mention that important part, that on teams with depth perspectives change. though i actually do think both the wings and flames had a similar problem because of that. you guys were hoping mcelhinney would be a better goalie and the wings were counting on howard. i think both were victim of getting stuck in the minors/on the bench for too long. i think both of them had their growth stunted due to it. neither may have turned into the next brodeur, but i do think both were hurt by their situation.

and don't count out kindl just yet! i think he still has a chance.

[HitterD]

Originally Posted by OzSome

Those guys you mentioned were drafted so high.... ie: Top 5 picks.. Flames usually draft their player from 12th pick or higher.

Whoosh

[SebC]

One trend in this thread is that most people think our best prospects are the ones in the Major Junior. That can mean one of two things: either our drafting is actually improving, or we overrated our junior prospects.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by SebC

One trend in this thread is that most people think our best prospects are the ones in the Major Junior. That can mean one of two things: either our drafting is actually improving, or we overrated our junior prospects.

I think our best prospects are the ones in Abbotsford who are closest to making the big team.

Backlund - Playmaking two-way center.
Pelech - Big, mean, hard-hitting defensive defenseman (Sarich type guy one day?)
Irving - Future #1 goalie
Sutter - Future gritty 3rd/4th line energy player ala Nystrom/Prust.

I'll be shocked if these four guys don't become full-time NHLers in the next couple years, and a couple of them might already be here if our NHL roster wasn't as deep as it is.

[cobra14]

cant wait for backlund to come to the regular roster

[GotKush]

I think it's pretty obvious Sutter has done a terrible job at drafting... He's pretty good at swinging deals but the Prospect pool is pretty bare. Not alot of prospects that are close to coming in and filling a significant roll... And with no first or second in next years draft, nothing on the way...

[Nuje]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I think our best prospects are the ones in Abbotsford who are closest to making the big team.

Backlund - Playmaking two-way center.
Pelech - Big, mean, hard-hitting defensive defenseman (Sarich type guy one day?)
Irving - Future #1 goalie
Sutter - Future gritty 3rd/4th line energy player ala Nystrom/Prust.

I'll be shocked if these four guys don't become full-time NHLers in the next couple years, and a couple of them might already be here if our NHL roster wasn't as deep as it is.

I'm on the guy you quoted's bandwagon. Irving's done very well this year, and you can't stop being optimistic about Backlund just yet. Pelech will be a Calgary flame next year IMO. John Negrin likely has more potential, but he's a little further away most likely.

In juniors, I'm pretty sure people are still optimistic about Nemisz and Wahl, along with Brodie. This year's pick Ryan Howse is looking like he's got a good shot of making it as well.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Detroit Red Wings scout Bruce Harralson was interviewed between periods on the Abbotsford/Hamilton game, and he had nothing but praise for the Calgary Flames organization. He thinks they're really doing the smart thing when it comes to developing talent. Very enlightening interview, and past the usual polite platitudes extended to home broadcasters.

Oh, and he really likes John Negrin.

[jeremywilhelm]

I'm watching the game tonight. Negrin is definitely the best defenseman on the ice not named Kronwall. Good defensively and has a cannon from the point.

Backlund looks disinterested and is hardly ever on the ice. I would be suprised if he gets 12 minutes of ice time.

Edit: I should give props to Cole as well. the other best player on the ice tonight and I have never followed him before (didnt even know he was a prospect)

[Reggie Dunlop]

Pelech had a hilarious fight in the first. Hamilton feller (Neilson) decides to drop 'em, Pelech fires four consecutive shots to the melon, decides it's a waste of time, and pushes him away, knocking him down in the process.

Pelech is badass. Serious badass.

[jeremywilhelm]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Pelech had a hilarious fight in the first. Hamilton feller (Neilson) decides to drop 'em, Pelech fires four consecutive shots to the melon, decides it's a waste of time, and pushes him away, knocking him down in the process.

Pelech is badass. Serious badass.

He was making some pretty wonky defensive plays though.

The coaches in Abby are baffling. Weird weird line combos, little or no ice time to their best players especially when they are down 2-1. Backlund had 4 shifts the whole period and 3 of the 4 he at least got the puck to the net. Why handcuff the kid with JD Watt and the other plugger on his line?

Jaffray had a good game too.

Final score was 2-1 for Hamilton but Abby spent 15 of the 20 minutes in their zone, the other 5 minutes were spent either clogging up the neutral zone or retrieving the puck from the various dumps and icings that hamilton was doing.
Negrin and Kronwall must have had over ten minutes of ice time that last period.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by jeremywilhelm

Backlund had 4 shifts the whole period and 3 of the 4 he at least got the puck to the net. Why handcuff the kid with JD Watt and the other plugger on his line?

Yeah, I don't get that at all. They've been doing that all season so far, first they had him with Cunning and Grantham (really odd), then they had him with Sutter and Germyn (Better but still odd) and now with J.D. Watt? Seems kind of weird that they said that they didn't keep him with the Flames because they want him to play in the top six and then not have him play in the top six in the AHL.

More oddness... even thou they saddle him with less then steller linemates (offensively speaking) at ES he still plays on the PP unit.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by jeremywilhelm

He was making some pretty wonky defensive plays though.

The coaches in Abby are baffling. Weird weird line combos, little or no ice time to their best players especially when they are down 2-1. Backlund had 4 shifts the whole period and 3 of the 4 he at least got the puck to the net. Why handcuff the kid with JD Watt and the other plugger on his line?

Jaffray had a good game too.

Final score was 2-1 for Hamilton but Abby spent 15 of the 20 minutes in their zone, the other 5 minutes were spent either clogging up the neutral zone or retrieving the puck from the various dumps and icings that hamilton was doing.
Negrin and Kronwall must have had over ten minutes of ice time that last period.

despite your perceived shortcomings on the line combos, it seemed to be effective despite the inability to score against a veteran goalie

[Delthefunky]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yeah, I don't get that at all. They've been doing that all season so far, first they had him with Cunning and Grantham (really odd), then they had him with Sutter and Germyn (Better but still odd) and now with J.D. Watt? Seems kind of weird that they said that they didn't keep him with the Flames because they want him to play in the top six and then not have him play in the top six in the AHL.

More oddness... even thou they saddle him with less then steller linemates (offensively speaking) at ES he still plays on the PP unit.

Maybe they realize that he has all the offensive tools, he just needs to work on more important parts of his game?

[jeremywilhelm]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

despite your perceived shortcomings on the line combos, it seemed to be effective despite the inability to score against a veteran goalie

It had more to do with Abbotsford defense being a tep ahead of the bulldogs forwards literally the whole period. Once the puck got in the O zone though, it was all individual effort the whole time by the forwards. They did not utilize each other well. Seems to be little to no chemistry.