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Old 07-23-2009, 12:19 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by valo403 View Post
Hilarious. You've never even heard the guys name before but now you're well acquainted with his personality. That's quite the talent.
Where did I say I never heard of this guy? Show me!

Get your facts straight.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:23 PM   #182
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So having now read the actual police report, I can see why charges were dropped.

Here's what happened, by the police officer's own admission.
1. He asked Gates to step outside. Gates refused, as is his right when he is residing peacefully within his own home.
2. He asked Gates for ID. Gates complied.
3. The police officer, without establishing probably cause, entered a private residence without permission and without identifying himself and showing proper identification first.
4. Gates never left his own porch.
5. Gates' only crime was to call the guy a racist. Which, given that the guy immediately assumed Gates was a criminal upon seeing him inside the house, is at least understandable even if you don't feel that it's true.
Ok, here are the facts without the personal opinion added.

1.) Report of possible B&E at a neighbors residence.
2.) Cambridge police officer attended the complainants home. Complainant said there were two black men at the neighbors and she believe it was suspicous as one of the men was wedging on the door trying to pry it open.
3.) The officer observed a man on the foyer of the residence in question. The person in the doorway was a black man. (report was of two black men possibly breaking into the house).
4.) The officer requested the man to exit and speak with the officer.
5.) The man refused stating "I will not".
6.) The man demanded to know who the officer was, to which the officer replied "Sgt. Cowley of the Cambridge police). (Contrary to what IFF says that the officer never identified himself)
7.) The officer continued to explain why he was there. (A complaint of a B&E). To which subject reply was "why, because I am a black man in America?"
8.) Officer asked if anyone else was in the residence.
9.) Subject replied it was none of his business and accued the officer of being racist.
10.) Subject then picked up a phone and dialed someone.

At this point in time the officer still has not identifed the person in the house. The person fits the description of someone breaking into that house. The person is not cooperative and refuses to answer questions of the police.

11.) Officer heard subject on the phone state "get the chief, whats his name?" he continued to tell the person on the phone that he was dealing with a "racist officer" - (It appears at this time the officer went into the residence as subject would not provide answers)
12.) Subject stated that the officer had no idea who he was messing with.
13.) Officer requested ID from subject. Subject first refused to provide ID but then provided a Harvard ID card. (Usually a school ID tells you only that he is affiliated with that school, not where they live).
14.) Once officer learned he was affiliated with Harvard he requested the Harvard police.
15.) Officer was about to leave when GATES demanded officers name again. Officer tried to tell his name once again but was yelled over by GATES. GATES again threatened the officers saying he wasn't someone to mess with. (what does that mean, physically, politically?)
16.) The officer was leaving the house as he could not hear the radio with GATES yelling.
17.) Once outside there appeared to be a crowed that formed. Public and police officers.
18.) GATES was warned that his behavoir was becoming disorderly.
19.) GATES continued to be disorderly.
20.) GATES was warned again to "calm down" (not the phrase I would have used as this usually makes the person even more agitated)
21.) GATES continued on and was subsequently arrested for Disorderly conduct.

So, contrary to what IFF said. Gates refused to leave the house and answer questions which IFF states is his right. WRONG, the police are investigating a crime in progress, observe someone who fits the description of the possible criminal. They have the authority to demand questions and have suspects cooperate.

IFF says that GATES complied by providing ID. GATES did provide ID, we are not sure if the officer was satisfied with the ID, it does not mention in the report. The only remark is that the officer was led to believe he was the lawful resident of the home, this is not confirmation.

IFF states that the officer entered the home without cause and without providing ID. NOT according to the officers report. The officer identified himself and have reasonable and probable grounds to suspect that an offence was taking place, thus he was authorized to enter the house to either confirm or negate his suspicions.

IFF states that GATES never left his porch. This is correct, however, he was bisplaying disorderly behavoir within a public palce out side of the house.

IFF states that GATES only crime was calling someone racist and that the officer immedially assumed that GATES was a criminal. Wrong and right. GATES was disorderly and broke the law. The officer DID assume that the man in the house was or could be a criminal as the man would not negate his own suspicion.

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Old 07-23-2009, 12:23 PM   #183
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google works wonders.
I watched some of the shows. Did you?
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:24 PM   #184
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Yeah, he did all of those things. Except for the part where he didn't do any of them.

What?
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:26 PM   #185
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How dare a black man talk back to the po-lice. He should have been taken outside and beaten in front of his neighbours, just to set an example.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:27 PM   #186
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it's just not worth it.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:28 PM   #187
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Agreed. Even assuming the report is 100% accurate, there is still no real reason to arrest the guy. The officer was leaving and should've just left. Its not his job to adjust bad attitudes, its to fight crimes.
How many times do you think people get arrested in Canada and the US for this very reason. MANY. Police respond to a complaint, investigate some people who are innocent. But the officer doesn't know until he does a proper investigation and questioning. Then the person who was innocent starts ranting on about the police, swearing , calling names (pig ect) and continues on like a Jack A. The person has now broken the law and are arrestable. Had the person just accepted the fact that police have a job to do then there would have been no problem.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:28 PM   #188
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Ok, here are the facts without the personal opinion added.
We don't know if those are the facts. That is the police report.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:29 PM   #189
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I watched some of the shows. Did you?
I've seen a couple of the shows and I don't in any way act like I know a person because they hosted a show I watched.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:29 PM   #190
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I just want to add. Before I read the report I was leaning to the side that the officers probably made a mistake. AFTER reading the report I agree with the arrest and it appears that this whole thing was blown out of proporation by Mr. GATES.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:32 PM   #191
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jolinar, there is plenty of non-facts in that summary.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:32 PM   #192
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I agree with your post, but that's hardly a forgotten fact. In fact, I think it's brought up pretty frequently. It doesn't take too long for a claim of racism (white on minority) to be counter with "ya, but white people are victims of racism too!".
Not really. In a hysterical moment like this, generally it is a forgotten fact.

Although I'm a pretty unlikely suspect to say this, I've been the "victim" of direct black on white racism twice . . . . once in Nassau, Bahamas and the other outside the main metro station in Atlanta.

I use parentheses for "victim" because, in both cases, I found the unprovoked nature of the behind-my-back verbal punches - and the context - to be pretty funny to tell you the truth.

Quite literally, in both cases, I was walking down a street and looking at no one in particular, mindlessly going from point A to B then wham, where the hell did that come from?

"White frakker " in one case was the mutter from an old man sitting in the corner of a storefront and "big white man with his cadillac thinks he owns the place" (I was walking on a pedestrian-only street in shorts and a plain white t-shirt. I wasn't exactly oozing prosperity) were the gist of the things directed my way.

Straight up obvious incidents. As I said, given the context, I actually thought both were pretty funny given their sheer idiocy. . . . but others might have reacted differently.

It happens.

Yes, blacks can be racists as well. Believe it.

Iowa Flames Fan offered a prediction of how this will end . . . . . well, I am not surprised blacks are mindlessly crowding around Gates while whites seem to have a genuine debate, with some for and against. I also can't wait for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to show up, guns blazing.

In fact, every time something like this comes up, the resulting debate looks like the OJ Simpson trial again where blacks were overwhelmingly in favour of his innocence while whites had more of a split.

You know, I get the historical persecution thing and the lingering bitterness that comes with it but holy moly, some things just don't look good.

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Old 07-23-2009, 12:33 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor View Post
I just want to add. Before I read the report I was leaning to the side that the officers probably made a mistake. AFTER reading the report I agree with the arrest and it appears that this whole thing was blown out of proporation by Mr. GATES.
So after hearing one side of the story you've changed your mind?
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:34 PM   #194
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We don't know if those are the facts. That is the police report.
Fair enough, but I will always assume that the report is factual unless proven otherwise. Yes, I know, there are some officers who would lie, but most do not.

It would be interesting to view the reports of the other officers and statements of people present.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:35 PM   #195
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I don't see racism in this matter, but I think the cop should not have arrested Gates.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:35 PM   #196
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What's most disappointing about police threads such as this is the group of people who presume the police are in the right and the person arrested are in the wrong as a default position. Making up what if scenarios, saying a police report is fact, and the like. It's disappointing because our legal system is based on the fact that we are innocent until proven guilty.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:35 PM   #197
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Looking at this story I would say Gates is the rascist, Cop knocks on the door and says he's investigating a possible breakin in and asks for identification and the first thing that comes out of Gates mouth is "why? because I'm black?" please!

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Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan View Post
What was Gates' crime? Being a jerk? That's not a crime. Nor is saying "I'll speak with your mama outside"--though you bolded that as though it were somehow damning.
Yes it can be a crime, next time you get pulled over try screaming and hollering at a cop in public and see how fast you land in the tank for a few hours!

Police Definitions of disorderly conduct:

A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally: (1) engages in fighting or in tumultuous conduct; (2) makes unreasonable noise and continues to do so after being asked to stop; or (3) disrupts a lawful assembly of persons;
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:36 PM   #198
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jolinar, there is plenty of non-facts in that summary.
See Troutmans post. I shouldn't have said facts but what we know from the police report. If you are disputing something I said in the summary contrary to the police report, I would ask you show me where.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:39 PM   #199
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Although I'm a pretty unlikely suspect to say this, I've been the "victim" of direct black on white racism twice . . . . once in Nassau, Bahamas and the other outside the main metro station in Atlanta.

"White frakker " in one case was the mutter from an old man sitting in the corner of a storefront and "big white man with his cadillac thinks he owns the place" (I was walking on a pedestrian-only street in shorts and a plain white t-shirt. I wasn't exactly oozing prosperity) were the gist of the things directed my way.
Wow you must have been traumatized! Did you go to therapy after being called a white man with a cadilac? I know I would have! Life is so tough!

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Old 07-23-2009, 12:41 PM   #200
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So after hearing one side of the story you've changed your mind?
Yes, like I said, so far with the evidence at hand, I am now on one side of this debate. If additional information comes to light showing something different, I would be willing to revisit my stance.
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