Henry Louis Gates Arrested in his own home

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by Byrns

How can it be racial profiling when a complaint call was placed into 911. It's not like they chose the house at random and arrested him.

Maybe no one calls to report white prowlers

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Azure

You don't have to be a prick about it.

The 'disorderly conduct' is a vague term and can apply to a whole slew of different situations.

Obviously the cops felt that by the way Gates responded, he was being disorderly. So they arrested him. IF, he was using the racist card and was yelling and screaming at the officers, they had due cause to arrest him.

As much as we may not like it when a cop comes to our house to investigate a B&E, it doesn't mean we should be acting like idiots when all they're trying to do is their job.

He may not have acted the way he should have. He may have unfairly played the race card. He may be a complete and utter prick. I can concede all of that.

I just don't like the fact that someone can be hauled to jail for that. Being an ass, even towards a police officer, isn't a crime. Is it stupid? Sure. Is it rude? Yes. But this guy did provide evidence he lived in the house. The officer should've swallowed his pride and walked away at that point. I think he was making a point by taking him to jail. It doesn't seem necessary unless the guy seems like he is causing/or going to cause harm to someone.

[Azure]

Don't know what police report you saw IFF.

Police said Gates was arrested after he yelled at an officer, accused him of racial bias and refused to calm down after the officer demanded that Gates show him identification to prove he lived in the home.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090721/...lar_disorderly

And the official police report.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...092gates1.html

Read it and tell me that the officer was acting out of line.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by valo403

I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure I read that this is a Harvard owned house, so Harvard ID was likely completely appropriate. His actual ID may not have had this address on it, I know when I've rented places at school my ID has retained my permanent address.

I don't know what the Harvard ID would look like and what it would say on it. I am pretty sure though and willing to bet that the Harvard ID does not include the address to the residence that you live at. So how would a Harvard ID be appropriate? Just because you have a Harvard ID means you live on site or more specifically in that house?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Igottago

He may not have acted the way he should have. He may have unfairly played the race card. He may be a complete and utter prick. I can concede all of that.

I just don't like the fact that someone can be hauled to jail for that. Being an ass, even towards a police officer, isn't a crime. Is it stupid? Sure. Is it rude? Yes. But this guy did provide evidence he lived in the house. The officer should've swallowed his pride and walked away at that point. I think he was making a point by taking him to jail. It doesn't seem necessary unless the guy seems like he is causing/or going to cause harm to someone.

Is it disorderly?

Yes.

Therefore he can get arrested for it.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

So having now read the actual police report, I can see why charges were dropped.

Here's what happened, by the police officer's own admission.
1. He asked Gates to step outside. Gates refused, as is his right when he is residing peacefully within his own home.
2. He asked Gates for ID. Gates complied.
3. The police officer, without establishing probably cause, entered a private residence without permission and without identifying himself and showing proper identification first.
4. Gates never left his own porch.
5. Gates' only crime was to call the guy a racist. Which, given that the guy immediately assumed Gates was a criminal upon seeing him inside the house, is at least understandable even if you don't feel that it's true.

If it were me, I'd walk away. You're a cop--you don't get to arrest someone because he called you a nasty name. It's understandable to be upset when someone calls you a name you don't like. It's not understandable to then abuse your power and arrest him when he's committed no crime and you know that he's committed no crime.

My prediction: Crowley will be suspended without pay, and possibly fired. Gates will sue and be awarded damages. Life in Cambridge will continue as normal, complete with outdoor chess games in Harvard Square and sushi on every street corner.

Can you provide the link where you aquired this info?

Thanks

[Azure]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Can you provide the link where you aquired this info?

Thanks

I don't know where he got his information from, but its not what the official report filed by Officer Crownley states.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...092gates1.html

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Don't know what police report you saw IFF.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090721/...lar_disorderly

And the official police report.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...092gates1.html

Read it and tell me that the officer was acting out of line.

You have to read past the window dressing that Crowley is trying to cover his own ass with. Tell me, which of the facts that I cited was wrong? Did Gates fail to prove his identity? Did he leave his own porch? Did he threaten the police officer with violence, or offer to disturb the peace of the neighborhood in any way?

More to the point: why did the police officer enter Gates' house without permission? Why did he return to Gates' porch after first leaving, to arrest a man who had offered him no threat and whose only crime was being verbally nasty?

It paints a pretty damning picture. The fact that the charges were immediately dropped is pretty telling. So yeah, I think calling the police officers' actions "stupid" is pretty apt. If anything, it's a little mild.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Obama's odd argument could be interpreted as racist overkill in itself even . . . . .

Gates apparent immediate launch into a tirade about race could also indicate racist attitudes of his own.

By that I mean, not all racists are white, something that seems to be frequently forgotten.

In any event, saying an officer who gave mouth-to-mouth resuscitation to a dying Reggie Lewis - and the mother of Lewis defends him in the newspaper today - is a racist makes Gates look a little idiotic.

Here's the human thing . . . . .none of us would like to be challenged by a police officer while standing in our own home. Some of us would handle it reasonably. Some of us would seeth but let the officer get on with his business. Some of us would get upset and lash out.

That would happen regardless of the black or white thing. Those would all be the common human reactions.

Gates needs to admit he's human. Obama needs to admit it's possible for a black man to have a human reaction to an unpleasant circumstance.

Cowperson

I agree with your post, but that's hardly a forgotten fact. In fact, I think it's brought up pretty frequently. It doesn't take too long for a claim of racism (white on minority) to be counter with "ya, but white people are victims of racism too!".

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Can you provide the link where you aquired this info?

Thanks

The link is in Azure's post above. Please tell me which of the facts I cited is incorrect.

Thanks.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Come on, Azure. You don't really believe that yelling at a cop from your own porch is a crime, do you? We don't live in a police state.

Obviously you haven't read the report.

The police were preparing to LEAVE, and Gates still wouldn't let it go. After warning him that he was becoming disorderly, Gates was arrested.

Seems to me that the officer did the right thing.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Azure

Is it disorderly?

Yes.

Therefore he can get arrested for it.

Again, by your own admission, the definition of "disorderly" is vague. But the cops are expected to use the right judgement on when or when not to arrest people. It shouldn't be based on someone pissing you off. It should be based on protection of the public. In no way was this cop serving or protecting the public by making this arrest.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Disorderly COnduct in Massachusetts

MGL CHAPTER 272. Mass General Laws, excerpt.

Section 53. Common night walkers, common street walkers, both male and female, common railers and brawlers, persons who with offensive and disorderly acts or language accost or annoy persons of the opposite sex, lewd, wanton and lascivious persons in speech or behavior, idle and disorderly persons, disturbers of the peace, keepers of noisy and disorderly houses, and persons guilty of indecent exposure may be punished by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than six months, or by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

Basically

A disorderly person is defined as one who:

• with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or
• recklessly creates a risk thereof
• engages in fighting or threatening, violent or tumultuous behavior, or
• creates a hazard or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Boy, if you can be arrested because you "refuse to calm down" while in your own house.... I'm going to start making a list of people I want arrested.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by nik-

LOL

You don't even know this man and you most likely hadn't even heard of him before this incident. Yet you seem so sure what his personality is.

How embarrassing.

I am quite familiar with Gates through his PBS series "African American Lives" in which Henry Louis Gates used DNA to trace the roots of famous black americans (Oprah and others) back to africa.

He was heavily involved in this project.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Basically

A disorderly person is defined as one who:

• with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or
• recklessly creates a risk thereof
• engages in fighting or threatening, violent or tumultuous behavior, or
• creates a hazard or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose

Yeah, he did all of those things. Except for the part where he didn't do any of them.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I am quite familiar with Gates through his PBS series "African American Lives" in which Henry Louis Gates used DNA to trace the roots of famous black americans (Oprah and others) back to africa.

He was heavily involved in this project.

google works wonders.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Disorderly COnduct in Massachusetts

MGL CHAPTER 272. Mass General Laws, excerpt.

Section 53. Common night walkers, common street walkers, both male and female, common railers and brawlers, persons who with offensive and disorderly acts or language accost or annoy persons of the opposite sex, lewd, wanton and lascivious persons in speech or behavior, idle and disorderly persons, disturbers of the peace, keepers of noisy and disorderly houses, and persons guilty of indecent exposure may be punished by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than six months, or by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

Basically

A disorderly person is defined as one who:

• with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or
• recklessly creates a risk thereof
• engages in fighting or threatening, violent or tumultuous behavior, or
• creates a hazard or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose

I should add "thanks for that post." I'd just thank it, but I'm out of thanks.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Almost everytime a story like this comes out it turns out that the person who was arrested started behaving like an ass. So stop being an ass and this would have ended right away.

If his house was being broken into for real would he want the police to show up and then have the criminal say "I own the house" and then have the police just leave?

The police need to have order while they are doing their job. They don't need people getting frustrated with them.

Did this guy thank the police officer for protecting his property?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

You have to read past the window dressing that Crowley is trying to cover his own ass with. Tell me, which of the facts that I cited was wrong? Did Gates fail to prove his identity?

No, but then again none of that is in question.

The officer asked Gates for his ID, and after 'initially refusing' Gates did eventually supply Harvard ID. So the officer called the Harvard Police.

Did he leave his own porch? Did he threaten the police officer with violence, or offer to disturb the peace of the neighborhood in any way?

You're either being ridiculously biased, or you didn't read the report.

As I turned and faced the door, I could see an older black male standing in the foyer of {} Ware Street. I made this observation through the glass paned front door. As I stood in plain view of this man, later identified as Gates, I asked if he would step out onto the porch and speak with me. He replied “no I will not”. He then demanded to know who I was. I told him that I was “Sgt. Crowley from the Cambridge Police” and that I was “investigating a report of a break in progress” at the residence. While I was making this statement, Gates opened the front door and exclaimed “why, because I’m a black man in America?”. I then asked Gates if there was anyone else in the residence. While yelling, he told me that it was none of my business and accused me of being a racist police officer. I assured Gates that I was responding to a citizen’s call to the Cambridge Police and that the caller was outside as we spoke. Gates seemed to ignore me and picked up a cordless telephone and dialed an unknown telephone number. As he did so, I radioed on channel I that I was off in the residence with someone who appeared to be a resident but very uncooperative. I then overheard Gates asking the person on the other end of his telephone call to “get the chief’ and “whats the chiefs name?’. Gates was telling the person on the other end of the call that he was dealing with a racist police officer in his home. Gates then turned to me and told me that I had no idea who I was “messing” with and that I had not heard the last of it. While I was led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence, I was quite surprised and confused with the behavior he exhibited toward me. I asked Gates to provide me with photo identification so that I could verify that he resided at Ware Street and so that I could radio my findings to ECC. Gates initially refused, demanding that I show him identification but then did supply me with a Harvard University identification card. Upon learning that Gates was affiliated with Harvard, I radioed and requested the presence of the Harvard University Police.
With the Harvard University identification in hand, I radioed my findings to ECC on channel two and prepared to leave. Gates again asked for my name which I began to provide. Gates began to yell over my spoken words by accusing me of being a racist police officer and leveling threats that he wasn’t someone to mess with. At some point during this exchange, I became aware that Off. Carlos Figueroa was standing behind me. When Gates asked a third time for my name, I explained to him that I had provided it at his request two separate times. Gates continued to yell at me. I told Gates that I was leaving his residence and that if he had any other questions regarding the matter, I would speak with him outside of the residence.
As I began walking through the foyer toward the front door, I could hear Gates agai,n demanding my name. I again told Gates that I would speak with him outside. My reason for wanting to leave the residence was that Gates was yelling very loud and the acoustics of the kitchen and foyer were making it difficult for me to transmit pertinent information to ECC or other responding units. His reply was “ya, I’ll speak with your mama outside”. When I left the residence, I noted that there were several Cambridge and Harvard University police officers assembled on the sidewalk in front of the residence. Additionally, the caller, md at least seven unidentified passers-by were looking in the direction of Gates, who had followed me outside of the residence.
As I descended the stairs to the sidewalk, Gates continued to yell at me, accusing me of racial bias and continued to tell me that I had not heard the last of him. Due to the tumultuous manner Gates had exhibited in his residence as well as his continued tumultuous behavior outside the residence, in view of the public, I warned Gates that he was becoming disorderly. Gates ignored my warning and continued to yell, which drew the attention of both the police officers and citizens, who appeared surprised and alarmed by Gates’s outburst. For a second time I warned Gates to calm down while I withdrew my department issued handcuffs from their carrying case. Gates again ignored my warning and continued to yell at me. It was at this time that I informed Gates that he was under arrest. I then stepped up the stairs, onto the porch and attempted to place handcuffs on Gates. Gates initially resisted my attempt to handcuff him, yelling that he was “disabled” and would fall without his cane. After the handcuffs were property applied, Gates complained that they were too tight. I ordered Off. Ivey, who was among the responding officers, to handcuff Gates with his arms in front of him for his comfort while I secured a cane for Gates from within the residence. I then asked Gates if he would like an officer to take possession of his house key and secure his front door, which he left wide open. Gates told me that the door was un securable due to a previous break attempt at the residence. Shortly thereafter, a Harvard University maintenance person arrived on scene and appeared familiar with Gates. I asked Gates if he was comfortable with this Harvard University maintenance person securing his residence. He told me that he was.

More to the point: why did the police officer enter Gates' house without permission?

That is a knock against the officer.

Why did he return to Gates' porch after first leaving, to arrest a man who had offered him no threat and whose only crime was being verbally nasty?

Read the damn report. You're being extremely biased here.

As I descended the stairs to the sidewalk, Gates continued to yell at me, accusing me of racial bias and continued to tell me that I had not heard the last of him. Due to the tumultuous manner Gates had exhibited in his residence as well as his continued tumultuous behavior outside the residence, in view of the public, I warned Gates that he was becoming disorderly. Gates ignored my warning and continued to yell, which drew the attention of both the police officers and citizens, who appeared surprised and alarmed by Gates’s outburst. For a second time I warned Gates to calm down while I withdrew my department issued handcuffs from their carrying case. Gates again ignored my warning and continued to yell at me. It was at this time that I informed Gates that he was under arrest. I then stepped up the stairs, onto the porch and attempted to place handcuffs on Gates. Gates initially resisted my attempt to handcuff him, yelling that he was “disabled” and would fall without his cane. After the handcuffs were property applied, Gates complained that they were too tight. I ordered Off. Ivey, who was among the responding officers, to handcuff Gates with his arms in front of him for his comfort while I secured a cane for Gates from within the residence. I then asked Gates if he would like an officer to take possession of his house key and secure his front door, which he left wide open. Gates told me that the door was un securable due to a previous break attempt at the residence. Shortly thereafter, a Harvard University maintenance person arrived on scene and appeared familiar with Gates. I asked Gates if he was comfortable with this Harvard University maintenance person securing his residence. He told me that he was.

It paints a pretty damning picture. The fact that the charges were immediately dropped is pretty telling. So yeah, I think calling the police officers' actions "stupid" is pretty apt. If anything, it's a little mild.

Yes, it paints a pretty damning picture of how stupid Gates acted.