Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I think she has to weigh that too.

My gut says there's no way she risks the backlash at her and her position by appointing an unelected coalition with an admitted lame duck leader, and she sends it to the polls, where it belongs.

Here's hoping

[browna]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Does the GG take the leadership problems with the Liberals into play when she makes her decision?

I almost thinks she has to. The Liberals are plainly a party without their sh%t together and to me are incapable of doing anything right.

Has to. Of course, not knowing the policy and procedure she has to use in making decisions like this, if she's got two eyes and can see and read the last election results and the internal party dissent with him in the fallout, but can't officially use that against him in this case, she can use it against him under the guise that he's not going to be around in 4 months anyway and call that further instability for this coalition.

[Thunderball]

I like the way they try to relate it to the potential CA, PC, BQ coalition in 2000.

There's three big differences:
1. The leaders never endorsed it.
2. That agreement was not signed. Its only paper until there's some signatures on it. I could draft a document saying Layton and May agree to shoot loggers. Unless they sign it, it means nothing. It doesn't even mean there's discussion.
3. Two of those parties merged after the 2000 election

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

Government is cabinet.

Coalition government is cabinet made up of more than one party.

Bloc quebecois will have no cabinet members.

Bloc quebecois is not a part of the coalition government.

Bloc quebecois will support the coalition government on matters of confidence.

I don't know how much more clearly I can spell it out.

You can't have a coalition government with less seats than the Opposition. The idea is absurd and nothing more than a ridiculous ploy to make it seem like the Bloc has no role in dictating policy - the Bloc MUST be a part of the coalition or the coalition has no standing in asking to be named the government. If they aren't part of the coalition, then the Conservatives have the largest number of seats and remain the government, and no hair-splitting on Cabinet representation changes this.

For someone who thinks he has a good grasp of how parliamentary systems work, you seem very naive on this point. The leaders of the THREE parties are making the representation to the GG about forming a government, and that makes them part of the coalition. How power is shared out among these parties after the government is formed has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they have combined together to form that government.

As I said earlier in this thread, the Bloc is delighting in this sham because it furthers their goals of showing the federal government to be dysfunctional. Do you think they didn't take any cabinet positions out of the noble desire to refrain from interfering in matters outside of the purview of Quebec? No, they did it to keep their options open to create as much disharmony as possible and to extract as much benefit as possible without any commensurate responsibilities.

[metallicat]

Ronald Pagen - Lifetime suspension. Self invoked?

[Jade]

I think Dion is going with the 'if I don't hear it it isn't happening' approach to interpreting Harpers plan.

from the speeches:
Harper

We are implementing the Automotive Innovation Fund and, working with the government of Ontario, we are undertaking due diligence on any further requests for assistance from the auto industry.
We are increasing support and incentives for manufacturers, the forestry sector, and others to pursue business opportunities. We are implementing agreements with the provinces to enhance labour mobility. And, next month on January 27, we will bring in a budget which will contain additional measures to boost Canada's economy, while making sure we avoid a long term structural deficit in Canada's finances.
In preparation for that budget we are consulting widely with Canadians, meeting with premiers of our provinces and territories, and working in collaboration with our international partners in G20. The minister of finance will be consulting with the business community and interest groups.

From Dion

Stephen Harper still refuses to propose measures to stimulate the Canadian economy.

Dions plan:

We will invest in our manufacturing, forestry and automotive sectors to protect and create jobs. We believe that in these tough economic times the government has a role to play to ensure that those who are doing their share for the prosperity of our country can continue to provide for the well-being of their families.

So he has a well thought out plan to do the same things proposed by the tories, who don't have a plan? Logic completely eludes this man.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

Government is cabinet.

Coalition government is cabinet made up of more than one party.

Bloc quebecois will have no cabinet members.

Bloc quebecois is not a part of the coalition government.

Bloc quebecois will support the coalition government on matters of confidence.

I don't know how much more clearly I can spell it out.

I don't know how you can spell it out so clearly and still not get it!!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Jade

I think Dion is going with the 'if I don't hear it it isn't happening' approach to interpreting Harpers plan.

from the speeches:
Harper



From Dion




Dions plan:


So he has a well thought out plan to do the same things proposed by the tories, who don't have a plan? Logic completely eludes this man.

This is what I said before, the Coalition has no economic plan and ignores or doesn't want the government to get to the budget which contains all of the plans that have come from consultations with the provinces and the G20 and business leaders.

The coalition really has to be held to a standard of at least showing that they have a fundamental economic plan before this government tumbles, not just a promise for more meetings that the Government has already done.

[metallicat]

Anyone watching CTV still? A lone Conservative strategist is being ganged up on by Sheila Copps and some other woman associated with either the Libs or NDP. He can't even get a word in edge wise.

[PsYcNeT]

It's nice to see this thread has squeezed out those with opposing views.

Now we can all agree with eachother, right?

On a more serious note, what's with all the calls for Alberta seperation being renewed all of a sudden? Seems a little illogically hypocritical, especially for those who denounce the inclusion of the Bloc.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Ronald Pagen - Lifetime suspension. Self invoked?

Wasn't that Hakan? They both sure posted with the same condescending tone.....

I left this thread at about 50 pages this morning and went snowboarding. Catching up is going to take me hours, and I should be working

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

Okay, that's like the fifth time that's been quoted...

Would Gerald Chipeur reallly have sent a letter to the Bloc proposing a formal coalition without consulting anyone. I mean I think the guy's got a pretty big ego, but I also believe he's a pretty loyal party guy.

Fine... Like these quotes more?

"
Day, who is now international trade minister, says he never saw the letter, never endorsed it, and would never sign such a deal.
"

and

"
Another one of the principals reportedly involved in the affair - former Progressive Conservative leader Joe Clark - also denied any knowledge of the letter.

"I've never heard of this matter until today and certainly haven't seen the document from Gerry Chipeur, nor, I'm told by Goldy Hyder, who was my chief of staff at the time, has he," Clark said.
"

So the leaders never saw it, nobody in their offices saw it... and yet it is supposed to be a party position? Seriously?

[metallicat]

Jean Lappiere on CTV just now: Dion and Duceppe happened to get in the same elevator a little while ago, and Duceppe asked Dion what happened with the tape...apparently he shrugged his shoulders and said we aren't used to being the opposition.

[JiriHrdina]

Yeah watching Duffy as well - unreal. This may have been brilliant by Harper. Ask for TV time knowing that Dion would as well and just let the guy screw himself.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Jean Lappiere on CTV just now: Dion and Duceppe happened to get in the same elevator a little while ago, and Duceppe asked Dion what happened with the tape...apparently he shrugged his shoulders and said we aren't used to being the opposition.

I'm hoping that you had the same reaction as me on that. I actually spit out my dinner or I would have choked to death on it.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm hoping that you had the same reaction as me on that. I actually spit out my dinner or I would have choked to death on it.

I had to rewind my PVR to make sure Lappiere wasn't speaking in green text.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

It's nice to see this thread has squeezed out those with opposing views.

Now we can all agree with eachother, right?

On a more serious note, what's with all the calls for Alberta seperation being renewed all of a sudden? Seems a little illogically hypocritical, especially for those who denounce the inclusion of the Bloc.

There was no squeezing out of opposing views in this thread at all. For the most part this thread has been very civil and respectful. The only person that was really be disrespectful looks like he's under life time suspension.

so I seriously disagree with your post

Happy?

On the Alberta Separatist front, I wasn't aware that there was an Alberta Separatist party trying to dictate terms on government policy and the budget. I guess I need to go and review the election results because I must have missed all of those seats that they occupy in Parliment.

[Wookie]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Jean Lappiere on CTV just now: Dion and Duceppe happened to get in the same elevator a little while ago, and Duceppe asked Dion what happened with the tape...apparently he shrugged his shoulders and said we aren't used to being the opposition.

I don't get it. Maybe I'm tired of reading this thread...

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

I had to rewind my PVR to make sure Lappiere wasn't speaking in green text.

Yeah, I turned on subtitles on my fancy T.V. and there was no green text.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by Wookie

I don't get it. Maybe I'm tired of reading this thread...

I think it just speaks to the extreme disorganization and complete disaster that this entire coalition has become in like two short days.