Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[BerubeHater]

Originally Posted by IGGYRULES

Maybe we could start an online petition to the Governor General to have another election rather than allow the coalition. Could possibly apply some pressure if enough names. I'd rather have another election and see where everything falls after that than have this BS.

I was thinking along the same lines. I was searching online and haven't found anything.

[browna]

Originally Posted by BerubeHater

I was thinking along the same lines. I was searching online and haven't found anything.

Online petitions are the equivalent of children's letters to Santa Claus.

[C_Rush]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

This is getting circular...

The majority of voters rejected Harper as Prime Minister. He was only PM because of the way our system works. It also happens that, because of the way our system works, coalitions can form which can oust him as PM.

I'm not saying what's happening is right or wrong in making this argument, just that the system is built for this to happen. If I were going to spin this I'd say that Harper is just the least unpopular of a bunch of losers - guys who couldn't lead their parties to be the favourite of even half the people in this country.

But Harper did take more of the vote than any single other leader, and a significant portion at that (like 12% more than Dion I believe), while Dion ran his party into the ground and lost seats. That's a pretty clear mandate for Harper. Dion has absolutely no mandate to govern other than what's given him by the coalition - which is directly against the way Canadians just voted. There is no way around that, no matter how you spin the figures.

[BerubeHater]

Originally Posted by browna

Online petitions are the equivalent of children's letters to Santa Claus.

If 10 million Canadians petition the GG to put it to a vote, that might factor in the decision.

If it went to a vote, and Canadians pick the goof troop, then I guess I can live with it as it isn't forced on us.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by C_Rush

But Harper did take more of the vote than any single other leader, and a significant portion at that (like 12% more than Dion I believe), while Dion ran his party into the ground and lost seats. That's a pretty clear mandate for Harper. Dion has absolutely no mandate to govern other than what's given him by the coalition - which is directly against the way Canadians just voted. There is no way around that, no matter how you spin the figures.

To take it one step further, all of nobody voted for the frankenstein version of a party that may take power of the country.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The thing I've heard from mostly conservative pundits is that this is undemocratic.

Well, how many people would've voted for a party that had Layton/and or a socialist ideal, along with Duceppe/a party that wants to split up Canada?

That's the party you're going to get ruling the country, and not one person in this country ever voted for that "party".

Mix that in with other parties making deals amongst themselves without the direction of the people who voted those people to be in that position, and it may dawn on you where that very valid undemocratic argument comes from.

[Devils'Advocate]

Let's say there were 307 political parties in Canada. All parties won one seat. Except, say, the Rhino party that won 2 seats. Does that mean that the Rhino party now has the right to run the country like it has a majority? Do they have a strong mandate? Are they the country's choice to run the country because they have more seats than any other party?

In Italy, Germany, Sweden this talk would all be laughed at. In Sweden the *FOUR* right wing parties formed a coalition against the one leftish party. The Swedish Social Democrats had 129 seats, 36 more than any other party and yet their leader resigned in shame. Having the most seats in a splintered minority government means absolutely jack sh*t. It's about time Canada learned what most other countries already know.

[IGGYRULES]

Originally Posted by browna

Online petitions are the equivalent of children's letters to Santa Claus.

Let's email then. I'll be emailing my thoughts right now, suggesting that she call another election and let the Canadian people decide the outcome of this game.

info@gg.ca


Her Excellency
the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean, C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.
Governor General of Canada

[Caged Great]

In Israel there is something like 23 parties that have seats in parliament. Obviously they have to work together in order to get things done.

That is all this is. It is odd with only 4 parties but it's not without precedent.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by IGGYRULES

Let's email then. I'll be emailing my thoughts right now, suggesting that she call another election and let the Canadian people decide the outcome of this game.

info@gg.ca

Her Excellency
the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean, C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.
Governor General of Canada

Honestly, what good will that do. I'm sure they can track the IP regions from the people sending them. If they get 3 million emails from Alberta and Saskatchewan, it won't matter much to them because it's obvious that they are just pissed that the Conservatives are getting the shaft.

If they had that many or even a lot more from Ontario and Quebec, then there may be a case for Michaelle Jean to grant an election. Otherwise, this will go through.

[metallicat]

When will the Honourable Mr. Dion be making his first trip as PM to visit our troops in Afghanistan? I am sure their morale will be boosted by a visit from our esteemed PM around Christmas time. I'd love to ask him when he's going.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

In Israel there is something like 23 parties that have seats in parliament. Obviously they have to work together in order to get things done.

That is all this is. It is odd with only 4 parties but it's not without precedent.

*whew* I was hoping we'd end up more like israel. Those guys have peace, order, and good government down to a science.

[Double_Dion]

ugh

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by IGGYRULES

Let's email then. I'll be emailing my thoughts right now, suggesting that she call another election and let the Canadian people decide the outcome of this game.

info@gg.ca

Her Excellency
the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean, C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.
Governor General of Canada

I sent one off to her, it might not do anything, but at least I've added my voice. Please guys, if we're going to write letters to MP's, MLA's and the GG, lets keep the tone respectfull.

Thanks

Greg
CC

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Let's say there were 307 political parties in Canada. All parties won one seat. Except, say, the Rhino party that won 2 seats. Does that mean that the Rhino party now has the right to run the country like it has a majority? Do they have a strong mandate? Are they the country's choice to run the country because they have more seats than any other party?

In Italy, Germany, Sweden this talk would all be laughed at. In Sweden the *FOUR* right wing parties formed a coalition against the one leftish party. The Swedish Social Democrats had 129 seats, 36 more than any other party and yet their leader resigned in shame. Having the most seats in a splintered minority government means absolutely jack sh*t. It's about time Canada learned what most other countries already know.

Well good for the Swedes. Bottom line is a) we don't live in Sweden, b) Canada is a very different country then Sweden and c) were not talking about four parties with similar ideologies here. It's 3 party's that include the liberals, socialist and separatists.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Double_Dion

It is time to SEPARATE.

I'd be in favor if certain things happened. But realistically if this went to a vote in Alberta what do you think the results would be.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Honestly, what good will that do. I'm sure they can track the IP regions from the people sending them. If they get 3 million emails from Alberta and Saskatchewan, it won't matter much to them because it's obvious that they are just pissed that the Conservatives are getting the shaft.

If they had that many or even a lot more from Ontario and Quebec, then there may be a case for Michaelle Jean to grant an election. Otherwise, this will go through.

You're right. It's always a much better plan to do absolutely nothing about anything that you feel strongly about.

[SebC]

Alright, just finished reading the thread, so I'm gonna address a lot of points in this post. I'll try to keep it organized and coherent.

Originally Posted by Jagger

What am I going to do, you ask? Fill out my Citizenship forms and become a bone-fide Canadian, that's what. [...] I'm proud to be British, I really am, but I 'feel' Canadian now too.

If you're like me, you can have both... it's fantastic (note to self, if country goes down the toilet, you have the right to work in the EU).

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I'd love to see a poll added to this thread.

1. Liberal/Socialist/Separatist Coalition
2. Election

This is a Calgary board. It really doesn't serve much purpose to do a poll here.

Originally Posted by Jade

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part of the definition of democracy that stated if you were a liberal you didn't have to follow the voters decision. Voters chose to give the Conservatives a minority government. Liberals didn't like it and decided to jump ahead. If 'in a democracy' the liberals get power no matter who we vote for, why do we vote?

Actually, if we all voted Conservative, the Liberals would not get power. The reason the Liberals are in power is because they still control the middle, which they would not if the Conservatives had won a majority government. Given that the Liberals control the middle, they must be included in any coalition - unless you start talking about truly unholy alliances between the right and the left cutting out the middle, e.g. Conservative-NDP coalition. This comes back to what I was saying in the other thread about the "median voter". Given that the Conservatives tried to cut them out of the political process by bankrupting them, it's not entirely surprising that they decided to ally with the left instead of the right (not that I support that decision).

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Well then give someone a majority! Minority Governments rarely work. Why is it so difficult to realize that the only way this crap is going to end is to just give someone a majority?

Canadians brought this on ourselves in the last election. The PCs told us why they called the election, and people didn't believe them. "It's OK" we said. "You can work together" we said.

Well now we find out exactly how greedy and power hungry the Socialists and Separatists really are. Now it's time to show up, come together and just pick a single friggin party to Govern.

Hmm... maybe because we disagree on who that party should be? Maybe because we don't like the Conservatives?

Originally Posted by ernie

The council would consist of 4 unelected people senior to the parties....Frank McKenna, Paul Martin, Roy Romanow and John Manley.

Again, to be fair, the Paul Martin did a much better job with the economy and the budget than Harper did.

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

I don't have the heart to read through this whole thread to catch up, so perhaps this has already been mentioned.

All the partisan rhetoric aside, Stephen Harper's academic background is in economics. He's an economist. Isn't that who we want as PM during the economic crisis the globe is facing?

Sure, he has a degree in economics. He's also proven that he's willing to put all that knowledge aside to try to buy votes. The GST cut was the wrong tax cut at the wrong time.

Originally Posted by Thunderball

[On bribing "blue" Liberals to cross the aisle]Agreed. May as well sink to the same level as these crooks. At least the economy won't be decimated by Harper bribing a dozen Liberals with Cabinet posts. Note, the dollar lost its gains today and is down .64 cents on this already.

To be fair, the only reason we've had to deal with Harper's brutal economic policies is because the CPC was able to make a huge scandal of what was really a relatively small amount of money. Which makes your post (and also this whole situation) somewhat funny.

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

This is in my view a huge blunder for the Liberals. If they govern their way out of this recession, they may come out OK--but the optics are already very bad. If they also end up being a failed government, the party is toast for at least a decade. Very risky play, and I'm a little surprised that they don't see it. My hope is it's a bluff.

At this point, I don't see how it can be. Ignatieff held their last out, and it appears he isn't willing to use it. There's no way they can back down and save face anymore.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Agreed...funny thing is that during the election they were HAMMERED by liberals on this very board for even suggesting this very possibility.

Now that the New Libs on the Bloq is suggesting it? No problem.

Hey now. I'm still hammering them. I only supported the Liberals forming an alliance very specifically to deal with the campaign finance issue. Now I am fully against it, and still very much a Liberal (although becoming more and more disenfrachised by the party leadership, they are the "least bad" option for me as I can't stand social conservatism or NDP socialism.)

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

This is getting more and more depressing. What are the odds that the Governor General surprises us all and calls for an election? Probably not good.

One of my friends just posted on Facebook that he's hearing that she may resign. I haven't reached him to find out whether or not he was joking. That would really be something though... we'd be going to an election for sure, but it may not change anything. And if it doesn't, well it's rinse and repeat until someone gets a majority or one of the players gives in to the other.

Originally Posted by DFO

What a freaking mess - no easy solution. I'm astonished by Harper's piss poor judgement on this whole saga. Why would he push this agenda at a time like this? All I want them to be dealing with is some sound financial policy - not this partisan crap. I'm a conservative but they won't get another vote of mine until Harper is replaced.

I would hope that a new election is called with a new leader for the Conservatives.

Except that leader would probably be Prentice. And he's the biggest corporate hack in the CPC. Just look at Bill C-61. Special interest groups and corporate lobbyists would be the puppeteers pulling the strings on Prentice, and in my opinion that leads to an inefficient economy and in the end isn't good for anyone.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Alberta and Saskatchewan should be kicking and screaming over this and putting motions into effect to protect this provinces and its Oil and Gas industry from the Cabal.

First statement when they take power, we don't accept your authority or recognize your government. Not dime one of our revenues will be flowing out of this province.

Heck, let's just shut off the TransCanada pipeline until they give us what we want.

Originally Posted by ikaris

The current equalization plan is based on fiscal capacity...

And does not whatsoever consider our higher costs of living, and to the government for things like infrastructure construction.

Originally Posted by ikaris

The money will likely come through borrowing (which the Conservatives would have done anyways).

Yeah, but that just delays the problem... when it comes to paying down this debt, who do you think is going to be paying for it?

[SebC]

... (continued - too many characters for one post).

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

What I don't understand is all this complaining about "Liberals wasting our tax dollars" when the Conservatives just spent more than anyone in the history of the country.

True, the Liberals could have outflanked the Conservatives on fiscal policy to appeal to the fiscal conservatives as reduce the Conservative party to their base of unelectable Christian-conservative theocrats. This move puts the Liberal party firmly back on the left of the Conservatives when it comes to fiscal policy. And that's saying something: there is no fiscally responsible party left.

That evaluation hinges on the assumption that this "stimulus package" will be pumping money into unsustainable industries, such as the auto industry which is going bankrupt because Jack's buddies in the CAW have managed to get paid more than what their employers can afford to pay them.

Personally, I don't think this package will do any good. In a way, telling consumers "the economy is so bad it needs a $30 billion injection from the government" is the worst thing for consumer confidence. Our economy is too linked to the rest of the world for it to matter. I do think now is a fantastistic time for infrastructure construction (which, credit to the CPC, is what they were planning on doing, whilst Stupid Stelmach is doing the opposite), as costs are down, but I don't think this package will create any long-term good for the economy... based on what we've heard it'll just prop up Jack's union buddies for a couple more years.

To me, the Liberals did the right thing to preserve their funding. They could have backed down at this point. I don't believe that this coalition is a necessary follow-through to prevent people from seeing it as purely motivated by greed - attempting to achieve political victory by silencing your opponents by bankrupting them is clearly against the spirit of democracy. They stepped up to protect Democracy and they won. Done.

Continue abstaining from parliament. You can say the Conservatives have a mandate and you respect it. Meanwhile, rebuild the party. Ignatieff (or even LeBlanc, since he's a harder target for the inevitable Conservative smear campaign) takes over in advance of the next election. Use the Conservatives campaign finance proposal to get your members to become more active.

Then in the next election you can smash the Conservatives to bits for passing the GST cut in the boom instead of income tax cuts in the bust. They blew their load too early and you nail them for it. Hit 'em hard for bringing the government to the brink of deficit with that ill-advised tax cut and massive spending increases before the economy collapsed, and say that this reduced their ability to pass an effective (!) stimulus package when it went down the toilet.

Ultimately this is the opinion piece that sums up my view on this perfectly:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...of-quebec.aspx

Having been handed a political gift by Stephen Harper, the Liberal party is doubling down instead of pocketing the win. The Prime Minister’s plan to hobble opposition parties by ending their access to taxpayer subsidies has blown up in his face, much as such plans always do when evil geniuses try to take over the world.

The opposition had this thing won: They humiliated Mr. Harper, forced him to back down, and undermined his authority with his own caucus. But rather than accept victory and withdraw with honour, top figures from the NDP and the Liberals spent the weekend conspiring for more. They want to run the whole country, and they apparently don’t care what sort of sham government they have to put together to do it.

I'll leave you with a bit of humour.

"Some people say Steven harper is a really historic figure. First he united the right and then he united the left."

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by IGGYRULES

Let's email then. I'll be emailing my thoughts right now, suggesting that she call another election and let the Canadian people decide the outcome of this game.

info@gg.com

Her Excellency
the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean, C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.
Governor General of Canada

I think that email address is wrong. I think its info@gg.ca