Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[metallicat]

I'm going to lose my mind even more if the GG agrees to let this coalition govern. I still have yet to see a logical reason for toppling this government, especially after the CPC made on their plans. They have a budget coming out EARLY, so let's see what's in that before allowing any sort of confidence vote. If the opposition don't like it, then topple the government.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

I'm going to lose my mind even more if the GG agrees to let this coalition govern. I still have yet to see a logical reason for toppling this government, especially after the CPC made on their plans. They have a budget coming out EARLY, so let's see what's in that before allowing any sort of confidence vote. If the opposition don't like it, then topple the government.

Of course she's going to allow it. Do you seriously think the Liberals would be making this power play if there was any chance that they would face an election as a result? Not a chance. They're bankrupt, both financially and morally. They'd can't afford an election and they'd get crucified at the polls. They only way they make this play is if they know in advance that the GG, a Liberal and past (present?) separatist sympathizer, will hand them power without having to face the electorate. This deal is signed, sealed and delivered. Get used to it.

[Thunderball]

I'm not totally up on the rules governing the GG, but is it possible for Harper to kick her out and make, say, Don Cherry, the next GG with the tacit understanding to refuse the coalition, or is she a permanent fixture until her term is up?

[Devils'Advocate]

Edit: Nevermind. Someone just took all ten bets.

Okay. Since sooooo many here think that this is going cause a depression and chaos across the country, I'll make this deal:
I'll bet $10 to the first ten people that the Liberals will GAIN seats and GAIN in popular support in the next election. Just PM me.

Edit: Nevermind. Someone just took all ten bets.

[MRCboicgy]

I don't have much to add to what has already been said, but this is stupid. I'm by no means conservative, but I think this is stupid. I mean really, this isn't Bolivia, and the world is facing a precarious financial situation.

The TSX dropped like a rock today on this news, and this will do nothing but hurt our country.

Stupid.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I'll bet $10 to the first ten people that the Liberals will GAIN seats and GAIN in popular support in the next election. Just PM me.

depends they take out the conservatives and the GG calls an election then i'll take all 10 of your wagers.

A few years from now?? who knows.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Okay. Since sooooo many here think that this is going cause a depression and chaos across the country, I'll make this deal:
I'll bet $10 to the first ten people that the Liberals will GAIN seats and GAIN in popular support in the next election. Just PM me.

I don't trust the Ontario electorate enough to take that bet.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

The TSX dropped like a rock today on this news, and this will do nothing but hurt our country.

MOD EDIT: You can make your points without that stuff.

[LChoy]

My 4 cents now:

I agree, best for all if the GG dissolves government and calls another election. With that being said, I would be disappointed if it was another low turnout.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Dan02

depends they take out the conservatives and the GG calls an election then i'll take all 10 of your wagers.

A few years from now?? who knows.

But that's just the thing. If you think that this is going to cause a depression, chaos, locusts, invasions of demons from the pits of hell, etc, etc.... then a few years shouldn't matter.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Edit: Nevermind. Someone just took all ten bets.

Okay. Since sooooo many here think that this is going cause a depression and chaos across the country, I'll make this deal:
I'll bet $10 to the first ten people that the Liberals will GAIN seats and GAIN in popular support in the next election. Just PM me.

Edit: Nevermind. Someone just took all ten bets.

As the future beneficiary of your largesse, thank you very much.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I'm not totally up on the rules governing the GG, but is it possible for Harper to kick her out and make, say, Don Cherry, the next GG with the tacit understanding to refuse the coalition, or is she a permanent fixture until her term is up?

Good question. From what I can find, they're appointed for five-year terms, which can be extended, or cut short by resignation; I'm not sure if a PM can ask the Queen to remove one and replace her with another.

[MRCboicgy]

Well I doubt I'm like him having not seen him ecept for his gay stuff (as that actually has bearing) and only knew the TSX went down due to work. THat's just my opinion without listening to any of the talking heads and putting 2+2 together.

But thanks for trying.

[Finny61]

I don't play partisan politics, I don't have much to say other then this coalition group is a joke, you didn't get voted in for a reason so why should GG (who could be partisan personally) decide for a nation the outcome, I mean she needs to do something to earn her paycheque but seriously.

That and the stimulus package Dion wants to put in place will only get us back to where we were yesterday thanks to those ######s our markets tanked today.

[metallicat]

Why are we seeing no reaction from the Conservatives? I am wondering if they have something up their sleeves...

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Its very simple. History tells me as much.

Alberta and Saskatchewan are the two "have" provinces right now...and by quite a margin over Quebec. Right there is a reason for huge concern as the transfer payments that ALberta alone already makes are pretty much what Quebec receives. Now Duceppe holds a MASSIVE hammer over the heads of the so called leaders of this coup. Simply he says to Dion or whatever unelected person replaces him, I want at least 1 billion more dollars in transer payments this year, or i pull back my support of your coalition. Layton and Dion have no choice but to aquiece to his demands should they want to retain the power they have just back-doored.

So Layton and Dion look West for that money as they certainly are not going to take from Ontario as that is where what little support they do have federally mostly comes from. Unless you believe they are going to cripple a province that is the only reason they have a seat to begin with, there is no where else to go for said favor for Duceppe.

Layton and Dion have already committed to spending 30 BILLION dollars to some unknown stimulus package...again, where do you think they will be getting that money from? That's more money than even the USA is proposing to bail out their auto industry just for a point of reference.

Then of course the NEP debacle enacted by Trudeau who was never as far left as Layton. It worked to prop up Ontario and Quebec then, and I have little doubt that all of Duceppe, Layton AND Dion all believe that it could work again, especially when collectively they have 21 seats West of Ontario.

Add all that up and logically tell me where they are going to be looking at for all this money they plan to spend...which is why they undertook this coup to begin with by their own words this afternoon. As clearly they didnt think Harper and his elected mandate were going fast enough or spending enough money.

Logic.....it works.

The current equalization plan is based on fiscal capacity...

http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/eqpe.html

Are you suggesting that this coalition government is going to change that somehow so that the have provinces have to give more money? If Alberta is a resource driven economy, and currently no more than 50% of it's natural resource revenues can be factored into the equalization money, how exactly can more money be given when by all accounts oil revenue is likely going to decrease based on current forecasts?

In order for the coalition to exist, the Bloc have agreed in writing that they will not vote against the coalition in a confidence vote. If they pull back their support and lie, then the coalition will fail. That is that, there is no conspiracy here to see. While we have no reason to trust the Bloc, what more can we do?

The whole point of the NEP was that the energy resource prices were exceptionally high and that (as you said) Ontario and Quebec wanted to capitalize on Alberta's success. I just don't see how that could happen again given the current economy for resources. It's your prerogative to remain paranoid, but it's just not in the interest of the country to stifle the only two "have" provinces.

The money will likely come through borrowing (which the Conservatives would have done anyways).

[browna]

Originally Posted by Finny61

That and the stimulus package Dion wants to put in place will only get us back to where we were yesterday thanks to those ######s our markets tanked today.

That's a good point...however long this stretches out, I wonder how much the uncertainty will drive the Canadian markets down.

Very hard to seperate how much of the downfall can/will be attributed to Canadian politics and how much to US factors...but the Dow didn't lose the most its ever lost in one day, as the TSX did.

Any sort of "gain" by whatever 3 headed stimulus package would somehow magically bring, may not even offset the losses tallied up in the month or so it takes for that package to show any results.

[FlamesAddiction]

What the Conservatives should do if they were smart, is they should offer to form a coalition with the Liberals. If they were really serious about comprimising with other parties, then it shouldn't be a problem. Offer them say 30% of the cabinet.

Such a coalition would probably be strong to govern for a full term and would leave the NDP and Bloc in the dust.

I know we'd never see it with how partisan politcs are these days, but I think it would be good for the country.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by browna

That's a good point...however long this stretches out, I wonder how much the uncertainty will drive the Canadian markets down.

Very hard to seperate how much of the downfall can/will be attributed to Canadian politics and how much to US factors...but the Dow didn't lose the most its ever lost in one day, as the TSX did.

Any sort of "gain" by whatever 3 headed stimulus package would somehow magically bring, may not even offset the losses tallied up in the month or so it takes for that package to show any results.

Totally off topic, but I've been meaning to mention that I love your avatar. That's my favourite logo in all of professional sports, and the waving flag is a classy presentation.

[Flame On]

If this is as undemocratic and all that as many suggest, I wonder if Bushy will invade before he swans off as one last act against tyranny.