My dad was assaulted

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Azure

They call themselves Indians. At least around here.

And then jump on you when YOU call them that.

So don't call them that. Pretty simple to solve the problem.

Does not being able to use the word Indian really have a negative impact on your life?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Azure

They call themselves Indians. At least around here.

And then jump on you when YOU call them that.

so do you have a problem with black people calling each other by the N word then?

why would you want to call them Indians anyway? it's not factually correct, and in such a multicultural country like Calgary it can be quite confusing with the large population of actual Indians in the city

[Azure]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

So don't call them that. Pretty simple to solve the problem.

Does not being able to use the word Indian really have a negative impact on your life?

I'm not saying that I do.

Its just strange when they 'officially' refer to themselves as Indians, as in 'Indian Affairs'....etc, etc....but its 'racist' when we call them that.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

so do you have a problem with black people calling each other by the N word then?

why would you want to call them Indians anyway? it's not factually correct, and in such a multicultural country like Calgary it can be quite confusing with the large population of actual Indians in the city

I never realized that black people ever used that word as an official reference.

Natives do use 'Indian' as an official description.

And yes I have a problem with it....but because its a derogatory term. I never realized that saying 'Indian' was derogatory.

A 1995 US Census Bureau survey found that more American Indians in the United States preferred American Indian to Native American.[71] Nonetheless, most American Indians are comfortable with Indian, American Indian, and Native American, and the terms are often used interchangeably.[72] The traditional term is reflected in the name chosen for the National Museum of the American Indian, which opened in 2004 on the Mall in Washington, D.C..

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

It's not up to you.

Fart why does it matter. If they don't want to be call Indians, I won't call them that. I'll use whatever word they want because it has no impact on me whatsoever. If 10 years from now they decide they don't want to be called Aboriginals - fine - I'll call them something else.

It just doesn't matter. And I don't know why people insist on trying to justify using a word that others find offensive.

Just use a different word.

If you read all of my post you would know I did say I usually refer to them as Natives when I don't know what specific tribe their from. But you are wrong: It is up to me. I have free speech. I don't even think the HRC would touch that one yet. Furthermore, It is not my responsibility if you or someone else gets offended. It's your feelings. Deal with them. I don't have to change my walk or my talk every time someone feels bad about themselves. I'm generally a kind person and don't go out of my way to offend others but, I also don't like to be told what I'm allowed to say or think.


Some folks on here are more concerned about being PC than the truth. There are some real problems out there that aren't solved simply by changing a few words or titles.

[JiriHrdina]

^You can say whatever you want - but its not up to you to decide if the term is racist when you are not part of that race.

Has nothing to do with being PC - just be considerate of other people.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

It's not up to you.

Fart why does it matter. If they don't want to be call Indians, I won't call them that. I'll use whatever word they want because it has no impact on me whatsoever. If 10 years from now they decide they don't want to be called Aboriginals - fine - I'll call them something else.

It just doesn't matter. And I don't know why people insist on trying to justify using a word that others find offensive.

Just use a different word.

I hear what you're saying, and I'd tend to agree...except I used to work for the government in a department called Indian & Northern Affairs Canada. If its that offensive then the government really needs to rename that department.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I hear what you're saying, and I'd tend to agree...except I used to work for the government in a department called Indian & Northern Affairs Canada. If its that offensive then the government really needs to rename that department.

No kidding.

But hey, lets all bicker about whether we should call them Natives or Indians....and ignore the 'real' problems going on.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I hear what you're saying, and I'd tend to agree...except I used to work for the government in a department called Indian & Northern Affairs Canada. If its that offensive then the government really needs to rename that department.

Well maybe they do indeed....if it offends people. I don't know if it does. Heck - I don't pretend to know why people find certain terms offensive and others not. All I know is if they do - I'll find a different word.Seems silly not to.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Well maybe they do indeed....if it offends people. I don't know if it does. Heck - I don't pretend to know why people find certain terms offensive and others not. All I know is if they do - I'll find a different word.Seems silly not to.

I totally agree with your logic here. But I think in this specific case, a lot of native people actually do refer to themselves as Indians, I've seen it first hand. So its not like they themselves have established in general terms that it is a derogatory remark as of yet.

I agree though, if native people in general were outraged by the term, no one should really have an issue with not using it.

I personally find it pretty ridiculous to call them Indians, because, well, they aren't Indian. Its a stupid mistake that has lasted for centuries.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I totally agree with your logic here. But I think in this specific case, a lot of native people actually do refer to themselves as Indians, I've seen it first hand. So its not like they themselves have established in general terms that it is a derogatory remark as of yet.

I agree though, if native people in general were outraged by the term, no one should really have an issue with not using it.

I personally find it pretty ridiculous to call them Indians, because, well, they aren't Indian. Its a stupid mistake that has lasted for centuries.

Agreed, but its not a racist term.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Azure

Agreed, but its not a racist term.

No, at this point its actually an official term. I actually have heard some native people say they prefer to be called Indians over natives. Boggles my mind, but that's how they felt.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Igottago

No, at this point its actually an official term. I actually have heard some native people say they prefer to be called Indians over natives. Boggles my mind, but that's how they felt.

[Flames09]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I've been told West Indians don't like to be associated or categorized as East Indians because of cultural differences. I don't remember where West Indians are from but was told once.

I do understand North American Indians now prefer to be called "First Nation Natives" and I normally address them as "natives"(or by the name of their tribe). That being said I don't think the term "Indian" is racist. The Native community has chosen this change for political reasons. Some non-Indians see themselves as native to this soil. Their family has been here for generations. They've lost family members defending this Country. ect.

The term Indian isn't racist, being Indian it's annoying. I absolutely hate it, when I tell people I'm Indian and they say "Oh you mean East Indian" it absolutely pisses me offf, NOOOOO I mean Indian, as in INDIA, I'm NOT East Indian.

[CaramonLS]

Give people money and nothing to do and you always create problems - regardless of ethnicity.

Pretty amazing how this topic can't be discussed nicely without one side accusing the other of racism or one side refusing to acknowledge that a problem even exists and the system is broken. The tricky part here is trying to be PC about a problem and not really offending people. With this topic it is extremely hard to do that.

But I think you need to start by looking at the facts. Among First Nations, they are near the bottom of the ladder in terms of just about every race based demographic indicator in Canada. Per Capita, First Nations lead the country in Alcoholism, Drug Abuse, Teen Pregnancy, Suicide. They are far more likely to go to jail or commit crime than any other 'race' of people in Canada. I think the side that acknowledges there is a problem just tends to have a hard time expressing this - they could definitely be more PC about it, but they certainly aren't racists for pointing out true facts about a culture. I think there are very few people (or perhaps none at all) in this thread who hate all First nations unilaterally and wont give one who has "got it together" a chance just strictly based on the fact he/she is First Nations.

I think the goals of everyone in this thread are the same - Get their societal problems in terms of # of criminals, drug abuse, alcoholism, etc - to the level that the rest of Canada is at.

I saw Rouge cut out of this thread pretty quick. I'd really like to know what he thinks a "solution" to this issue might be, because it is quite clear that what is happening right now isn't working. Would giving First Nations access to more money somehow improve their living conditions? Or would it simply lead to more substance abuse. Rouge, you should be able to find the answer in a Sociology textbook which compares the demographics of those living on welfare to those who work for a living.

[Aeneas]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

How does your dad know that drinking Lysol leads to green foam coming out of your mouth? Does he know a lot of people that partake in Lysol?

Was intending to stay out of this one, but this is a valid question. I thought it was an odd statement also.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Flames09

The term Indian isn't racist, being Indian it's annoying. I absolutely hate it, when I tell people I'm Indian and they say "Oh you mean East Indian" it absolutely pisses me offf, NOOOOO I mean Indian, as in INDIA, I'm NOT East Indian.

Yeah, I hate the term east indian too. It makes no sense. WTF is East India? It's just India. There is no east or west India. Canada isn't India, therefore the natives are not indians. Indians are indians.

I guess we just have to live with all these screwed up inaccurate terms from the colonial past.

[krazycanuck]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Yeah, I hate the term east indian too. It makes no sense. WTF is East India? It's just India. There is no east or west India.

Well there are the West Indies as well...hence the EAST designation of India as we know it.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Aeneas

Was intending to stay out of this one, but this is a valid question. I thought it was an odd statement also.

When I drink blue Lysol I foam blue at the mouth so I am assuming that the green stuff would have the same effect.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

^You can say whatever you want - but its not up to you to decide if the term is racist when you are not part of that race.

Has nothing to do with being PC - just be considerate of other people.

It is up to me to decide. It is my vocabulary. There is still free speech(limited) in this country. Consideration of others is a factor but, there are other considerations as well: Is the person being unreasonably sensitive? Is the person making the request to change the subject? Is the word truly offensive? Do I want to offend them? Ect.

Personally I think the motivation for changing the word is political. The leadership wants the title "First Nation" because that is the basis of their legal arguments. That is why the average Indian you run into has no problem with the title and will use it themselves.