My dad was assaulted

[icecube]

Your present affluent lifestyle derives from the fact that treaties and land transfers were made in the first place. The treaty benefits they receive in return are a pittance compared to land and resources we all benefit from today (and future generations will continue to benefit from). What makes you so hard done by? They got the crappy end of the deal by all accounts.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

The government should be removing what exactly? The deals have been signed. Should they just renege on it all now? I guess it wouldn't be the first time...

They should try to reform the treaties and take away the special status.

Everyone bashes native Canadians for being a bunch of freeloaders but far as I can tell, they do exactly what everyone else would do in the same situation -- get what they can take and take what they were promised.

Would you do different?

Not all of them do it.

There are actually a few that get off the reserve and build a successful life. Point is that they get away from the 'entitlement.'

[Berger_4_]

To back up Azure here...I don't think the treaties are valid anymore. Come on, it was 200 years ago. To say that these treaties are helping either party is flat out wrong. It costs the people their pride, their willingness to work, all that stuff. And it costs the government by having to deal with stuff similar to what occured in the OP. I think both parties need to take a step back and really look at what could be done to help both sides. Obviously the Natives won't want to give up their current situation (really, who would? Free money, hunting, fishing, etc.) but something does need to be done. The treaties are antiquated and no longer relevant to today. It's time that something is done to fix it. And Azure is exactly right about how those that build a successful life get away from the 'entitlement'. They find their work ethic, find something they enjoy and can do well, and leave. The problem is that there seems to be very few of them willing to find that ethic and get out of the awful cycle that is reserve life. It's just too easy to stay there, get your monthly cheque, and call it good. If we want to fix the problem, we've got to look at changing those treaties, and probably their special status too.

[Berger_4_]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

^^^ That turtle power avatar is ominous in the context of this thread...

Haha yeah...I've been thinking about changing it for a while, so I guess now's as good a time as any haha.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by chris lindberg

^
^
^
Every time Native Canadian Indians are discussed here on CalgaryPuck it turns into a bashing thread.

Yep and I'm getting pretty sick reading all the racist and ignorant comments. Makes me kind of ashamed.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yep and I'm getting pretty sick reading all the racist and ignorant comments. Makes me kind of ashamed.

I hear what you're saying. The truth is, I think this is one of those times when the bravado conferred on people by anonymity makes them feel more free to use offensive language in talking about an issue, when if they were in a situation where they were more accountable for their words they might be more circumspect. But it is disappointing.

It does seem to me that there are two threads--the one where a phobic, anger-filled racism is expressed and another where a few are trying to talk about issues surrounding how Canada has dealt with its aboriginal peoples in the past. The first of those isn't worth responding to except to say that to react to a random act of violence with intolerance toward another ethnic group is more or less to give up the moral high ground.

As for the second, I think it's worth commenting that treaty rights were conferred on Native peoples in our country for a very simple reason--European settlers colonized their homes, displaced their people and occasionally committed murderous genocidal acts in the name of colonialism. Those rights are a form of compensation, and in the end they're not "special rights" so much as a woefully inadequate attempt to erase Canada's racist history. Unfortunately, it's not enough to say "that was all 200 years ago, so it doesn't matter" (not to mention factually wrong--200 years ago was 1808, and the history of these issues extends much later than that). The truth is that acts of racial violence such as those perpetrated on the First Nations of Canada tend to have a lasting, generational effect, and they're not so far removed in our history that we should expect them to be just a nice story that we tell our kids.

Furthermore, it's unwise in my view to generalize about an ethnic group in the way that a few in this thread have done. I would guess that the comments about "90% of Natives are this or that" have about as much validity as "90% of Edmonton fans are idiots." It's a statement that is said for effect, with the full knowledge that it isn't true.

The problem is that in this case that statement is damaging. There are posters on this board who are Native Canadians, and making racist generalizations like that will make those posters feel less welcome here. And that's the definition of racism: making someone feel like they don't belong because their skin is a different colour.

I have no problem with a variety of views on treaties, how the government should approach the First Nations, etc. etc. But I hope we can all move forward and talk about these things in a way that recognizes our diversity as a community and above all treats people with respect and dignity regardless of background.

[Flames09]

First of all it's 'Native' or 'First Nations' NOT INDIAN, an 'INDIAN' is someone who is from INDIA, this is very annoying it's 2008 and people seriously need to get this right. A person from INDIA is NOT East INDIAN, they are INDIAN.

Secondly, you are the biggest fool if you believe there isn't a problem. We've all seen this going on for years now. There is nothing racist about admitting a huge chunk of a certain race has a problem. I'm not saying all First Nations people have problems but it's safe to say a noticeable amount do. The biggest problem is handouts, what happened a gazillion years ago happened (it is unfortunate). I would rather not give out cash, I would rather have a system where they get $0.00 from the government but get a paid-for education, and job placement. Something that'll help them long-term, not a quick fix. By giving Natives money the Canadian government is making the situation worse, this isn't helping them for the future this is only hurting them.

[PowerPlayoffs06]

Originally Posted by Flames09

First of all it's 'Native' or 'First Nations' NOT INDIAN, an 'INDIAN' is someone who is from INDIA, this is very annoying it's 2008 and people seriously need to get this right. A person from INDIA is NOT East INDIAN, they are INDIAN.

Better get on the phone to your MLA and tell them what a racist Government we have because they're still using that antiquated and biggoted term by continuing to calling it the Indian Act and the Department of Indian Affairs and because all official sites refer to them as Indians in addition to Natives, First Nations, Original Peoples and Aboriginals.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by icecube

They got the crappy end of the deal by all accounts.

Compare the Canadian Indians/Aboriginals/Native persons to the indigenous people of many other colonies and see how much better they were treated.

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I hear what you're saying. The truth is, I think this is one of those times when the bravado conferred on people by anonymity makes them feel more free to use offensive language in talking about an issue, when if they were in a situation where they were more accountable for their words they might be more circumspect. But it is disappointing.

I have had to check myself numerous times to keep my responses PG-13 for this website. This is an issue that I feel very passionate about but I am not really allowed to say how I feel.

A friend of mine was jumped at Anderson by 3 Natives, I wish I could have been there. Not to help, just to watch. He has been training MMA for many years and I think it would have been a riot to see the beating that ensued.

I have been spit on for offering a native some food when he asked for money for food. Shockingly he didn't want money for food I guess.

I know a few Natives that have taken advantage of the benefits layed out for them and lead productive lives. One is a good buddy of mine, he is a Metis who looks less native than I do, he has blonde hair and blue eyes but all of his education was paid for and he got a grant for a house as well. He is the exception, not the rule though and that is what frustrates me on a daily basis.

It just seems to me that instead of trying to fix problems the government is content throwing my tax dollars at them.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Flames09

First of all it's 'Native' or 'First Nations' NOT INDIAN, an 'INDIAN' is someone who is from INDIA, this is very annoying it's 2008 and people seriously need to get this right. A person from INDIA is NOT East INDIAN, they are INDIAN.

I've been told West Indians don't like to be associated or categorized as East Indians because of cultural differences. I don't remember where West Indians are from but was told once.

I do understand North American Indians now prefer to be called "First Nation Natives" and I normally address them as "natives"(or by the name of their tribe). That being said I don't think the term "Indian" is racist. The Native community has chosen this change for political reasons. Some non-Indians see themselves as native to this soil. Their family has been here for generations. They've lost family members defending this Country. ect.

[troutman]

I think Native Americans were mis-identified as "Indians" by Columbus, because he thought he was in India when he discovered the Carribbean.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by troutman

I think Native Americans were mis-identified as "Indians" by Columbus, because he thought he was in India when he discovered the Carribbean.

Don't tell cowboys that, they will be pissed. Cowboy and Native Americans doesn't have the same ring to it tbqh.

[FlameFanStuckinEDM]

Here is an article that was in a recent issue of Canadian Geographic:

http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/mag...tsawwassen.asp

The article talks about a new agreement between the government and the Tsawwassen Reserve and some of the backlash from the new agreement. I think this is a step in the right direction for all canadians.

[J pold]

Great Post IFF

There have been a lot of generalizing and racist comments in this thread, a lot of them seem to be backed by hate

It’s very unfortunate what happened to WK dad but like Jiri has said I don’t see what race has to do with the issue

[fatso]

Bobloba says he is not really allowed to say what he feels, then provides 3 paragraphs of anecdotal evidence of "natives" social delinquency. He does know a good one though! Classic.

There's some great posts in here, like IFFs, and I think many of us share similar viewpoints. LIke Chris_Lindberg, I'm disappointed that a discussion of First Nations peoples always seems to degenerate to anecdotes and thinly-veiled racist comments.

That said, I still don't get how racial presumptions aren't racist.

I've had my ass handed to me a few times by white dudes. Most panhandlers where I live are by-and-large whites. Most serial killers I see on TV are white. Most wife-beaters I've encountered in life are white.

How come there's no systematic presumption that white people are prone to these things? How come there's no government assistance to help white people stop molesting their kids? How come the raciallized communities aren't calling for the white leaders to put an end to the Paris Hilton plague of stupidity spreading through the white youth community? How come when I got tuned up, it was by just a bunch of dudes?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by fatso

How come there's no systematic presumption that white people are prone to these things? How come there's no government assistance to help white people stop molesting their kids? How come the raciallized communities aren't calling for the white leaders to put an end to the Paris Hilton plague of stupidity spreading through the white youth community? How come when I got tuned up, it was by just a bunch of dudes?

Because white isn't an ethnicity, you silly. It's just the default from which other ethnicities differ.

[fatso]

And We Finally Have A Winner!

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by fatso

Bobloba says he is not really allowed to say what he feels, then provides 3 paragraphs of anecdotal evidence of "natives" social delinquency. He does know a good one though! Classic.

Sigh. I was just telling stories. There are lots of drunk white bums as well, but they pay for their booze with their panhandlings, not gov't cheques.

I have had numerous good experiences with Natives. I have met a few through school. I went to some team building thing at the Nakoda lodge and it was refreshing to hear the stories about how some of the people on the reserve have turned their lives around.

The problem is for every positive experience I have, I have 5 or 6 negative ones so it makes it hard to not generalize.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by fatso

That said, I still don't get how racial presumptions aren't racist.

They are. I don't really see how anyone can argue otherwise.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by fatso

Most wife-beaters I've encountered in life are white.

What do you do for a living? I hope that I never have to say that I have encountered enough wife beaters in my lifetime that I am able to separate by ethnicities.