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View Poll Results: Pick the best prospect from the following
Billins 0 0%
Bruce 0 0%
Carroll 18 9.33%
Deblouw 0 0%
Elson 0 0%
Gilmour 3 1.55%
Grant 0 0%
Harrison 2 1.04%
Hathaway 13 6.74%
Kanzig 13 6.74%
Karnaukhov 0 0%
Mangiapane 40 20.73%
Ollas Mattson 3 1.55%
Rafikov 83 43.01%
Sieloff 17 8.81%
Van Brabant 0 0%
Wolf 1 0.52%
Voters: 193. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-25-2015, 09:39 AM   #1
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Default Summer 2015 Prospect Ranking - Round 20

it's time.

Calgarypuck's 3rd annual Prospect Ranking Poll!

Going with the 25 and under with 65 or less games played at the NHL level which actually works pretty closely with my own rule of thumb of "anyone not too old that hasn't been penciled in".

Therefore Granlund, Ortio and Ferland are still prospects.

Monahan and Gaudreau are young but clearly established and no longer prospects. Bennett may be penciled in but he's only played 12 NHL games and is a prospect.

Previous Two Editions
2014 - http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=139238
2013 - http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=130143

Rankings:

1. Sam Bennett - 96% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=147961)
2. Emile Poirier - 38% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=147973)
3. Jon Gillies - 35% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=147982)
4. Micheal Ferland - 44% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=147999)
5. Joni Ortio - 63% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148014)
6. Mark Jankowski - 38% Run off (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148037 / http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148031)
7. Brandon Hickey - 57% Run off (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148057 / http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148044)
8. Markus Granlund - 47% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148068)
9. Morgan Klimchuk - 55% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148080)
10. Oliver Kylington - 43% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148090)
11. Tyler Wotherspoon - 39% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148120)
12. Mason McDonald - 29% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148134)
13. Rasmus Andersson - 54% Run Off (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148171 / http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148161)
14. Bill Arnold - 46% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148188)
15. Kenny Morrison - 56% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148196)
16. Ryan Culkin - 32% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148209)
17. Hunter Smith - 42% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148243)
18. Kenny Agostino - 32% (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148249)
19. Brett Kulak 54% Run Off (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148285 / http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148264)
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Old 07-25-2015, 09:40 AM   #2
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Rafikov is way overdue
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Old 07-25-2015, 09:42 AM   #3
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Last spot in the top 20 if that means anything (Jooris would suggest not!)

I went with Rafikov again, guessing this is his round to lose.
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Old 07-25-2015, 09:45 AM   #4
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Even though we're at 20, there are still several guys that interest me
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Old 07-25-2015, 09:55 AM   #5
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Rafikov simply based on what he's achieved so far. I wish I had more opportunities to watch him to make a more educated decision.

Still intrigued by Carroll, Hathaway, Gilmour, Kanzig, and Sieloff.
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Old 07-25-2015, 09:59 AM   #6
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Speaking of sleepers, Adam Ollas Mattson hasn't even gotten a sniff of attention and he's progressing very nicely in Sweden. Played 34 games in the SHL as one of the youngest players in the league. He's not going to go until closer to 25 in this year's ranking and yet you can't help but feel extremely confident in his development so far. So much positivity in this list...
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:00 AM   #7
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Guys on the board that still interest me:
Carroll
Deblouw
Elson
Harrison
Hathaway
Karnaukhov
Mangiapane
Rafikov

Really no preference after Rafikov. But I think each of these guys can be at least a depth forward in the future.

REst I have no hope for.
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:02 AM   #8
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Speaking of sleepers, Adam Ollas Mattson hasn't even gotten a sniff of attention and he's progressing very nicely in Sweden. Played 34 games in the SHL as one of the youngest players in the league. He's not going to go until closer to 25 in this year's ranking and yet you can't help but feel extremely confident in his development so far. So much positivity in this list...
He intrigues me, but I will be disappointed if he doesn't get an invite to the WJ team as a 19 year old.

And that would be the only chance to get to see him play
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:11 AM   #9
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Kanzig. I still am optimistic that he is going to bring it all together and turn into a mean, smart shutdown dman.
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:36 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Chief View Post
Guys on the board that still interest me:
Carroll
Deblouw
Elson
Harrison
Hathaway
Karnaukhov
Mangiapane
Rafikov

Really no preference after Rafikov. But I think each of these guys can be at least a depth forward in the future.

REst I have no hope for.
There are still so many dark horses. Usually at this point, it is a bunch of "meh" prospects left, but now we are seeing many that even if they are lower probability projects, have relatively high ceilings. I think it shows how the Flames drafting strategy has changed in recent years. There is a lot more swinging for the fences, which I think it great.
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:45 AM   #11
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Kanzig. I still am optimistic that he is going to bring it all together and turn into a mean, smart shutdown dman.
I'm pencilling him in future as an Engelland replacement. I think he will be a serviceable defenceman in a 7th dman role with the Flames that can fill in for the 6th guy (Morrison? Wotherspoon?) vs bigger western teams. Or the Oilers.

Flames got him because big and strong and punchy, sure, but the young man shows good hockey smarts and leadership. I remember him foiling Johnny in a few of the 1v1 drills last year's camp. And I believe he was instrumental in making Sam Reinhart's life miserable in the WHL playoffs, logging big minutes too.
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Old 07-25-2015, 11:25 AM   #12
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Could we have full names on these prospects for the rest of the polls? I'm not as familiar with a lot of the prospects left to vote on.
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Old 07-25-2015, 11:30 AM   #13
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If Sieloff 2103 shows up at camp and is over his year off he will be the Flames 7/8 d-man or the first call up.

He had a comparable after draft year to Hickey (CP #1 D-man prospect) ... He was on the USA Gold medal team at the 2013 WJC.

For Hickey to match he would have to come to the Flames main camp this year and play so well in NHL exhibition games that the Flames would decide to let him heal his broken jaw in the AHL rather than sending him back to the OHL.

At last year's development camp Sieloff had a no-contact Jersey. This year he has had a full year recovery and training to build up his stamina and Strength back to an NHL level.

He was the 2nd youngest player at Adirondack last season... being 7 months older than Poirier... Culkin and Kulak are 4 and 5 months older than Sieloff.

This quote from the Flames future #1 goalie shows where Sieloff was in 2013:

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"What doesn't Patty bring?" USA White goalie and fellow Flames prospect Jon Gillies said. "He's got that touch of offense when he needs it and he just lowers the boom on people and he's very solid defensively. … He plays a calm game. He's physical when he has to be, when he can be, but he never steps out of his way, never gets out of position doing it. He's that spark plug for us, gets us going and he's our leader."
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:19 PM   #14
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^
Sieloff's stock among fans was hurt badly by all the time off he had because of injuries and freak accidents the past two years, and rightly so. We can't be expected to continue to set players who don't play ahead of those who are actually improving.

If he is healthy this year, I would expect him to make a massive leap in next summer's poll. But these rankings are never linear, and players themselves do not ever follow the same developmental track. This is why there are often wild fluctuations from one year to the next.
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:30 PM   #15
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Mangiapane.

For me to have any interest in Sieloff he would have to work his way out of Stockton's bottom pairing (unlikely), while making a positive impact (unlikely) and getting himself at least one call up (unlikely). His style of play has been passed over in the NHL.
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:46 PM   #16
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^
Sieloff's stock among fans was hurt badly by all the time off he had because of injuries and freak accidents the past two years, and rightly so. We can't be expected to continue to set players who don't play ahead of those who are actually improving.

If he is healthy this year, I would expect him to make a massive leap in next summer's poll. But these rankings are never linear, and players themselves do not ever follow the same developmental track. This is why there are often wild fluctuations from one year to the next.
He has played at a higher level than any other of the Flames D prospects. In 2013 he was way ahead of Wotherspoon who was a full year older.

Meanwhile Kylington is non-stop regression and somehow CP is able to overlook the simple fact that he was the worst d-man at the U-18 tournament because a 2 seasons ago as a 16 year old he played well against men. Did he miss a year because of a freak infection? That would make sense to me and then he would have likely been drafted a lot higher than #60 overall.

Sieloff has a clear cut explanation (excuse).... he was held back by a in grown hair that resulted in staph infection that had him basically hospitalized for over 2 months and missing a full year of conditioning.

According to this interview he was not healthy until December 2014.

After missing a year of condition he still was rated a better d-man by the Flames organization than Kulak and Culkin for example... playing more AHL games than them.

He spent this summer working with Flames strength and conditioning coach Ryan van Asten.
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:58 PM   #17
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Went Rafikov. Will go Carroll/Gilmour next, likely voting Gilmour for 4 or 5 rounds.

I don't know anything about Karnaukov or Mangaguy.
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:05 PM   #18
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He has played at a higher level than any other of the Flames D prospects. In 2013 he was way ahead of Wotherspoon who was a full year older.
But that was two years ago. I have no way of knowing whether or not that is still true today.

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Meanwhile Kylington is non-stop regression and somehow CP is able to overlook the simple fact that he was the worst d-man at the U-18 tournament because a 2 seasons ago as a 16 year old he played well against men. Did he miss a year because of a freak infection? That would make sense to me and then he would have likely been drafted a lot higher than #60 overall.
Kylington gets a lot of attention because he has a lot of tantalising, elite level skills; skills that Sieloff will never possess. Not everyone will apply the same metrics to their own internal rankings, and often will not do so consistently. That's how it is for me, at least. I rank some players higher because of their level of experience, while others I have ranked entirely on their potential. Apparently that one tournament was really important to your own internal ranking, whereas it was not to many other posters. (The fact that Kylington has already been signed by the Flames also suggests that they are not all that concerned about it either.)

All that said, I think Sieloff will do well this season, and I am eager to see how he compares to the other Flames prospects. But I am not prepared just to give him a "pass" with all that has transpires in the last two years.
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:19 PM   #19
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He has played at a higher level than any other of the Flames D prospects. In 2013 he was way ahead of Wotherspoon who was a full year older.
Unless Kylington is brought in, Sieloff is going into stockton as the worst defenseman in the defensive zone on the roster, while barely being ahead of Kanzig on offense. As a 21 year old, there is a 20 year old who is already better defensively than him while being bigger and stronger.

Quote:
Sieloff has a clear cut explanation (excuse).... he was held back by a in grown hair that resulted in staph infection that had him basically hospitalized for over 2 months and missing a full year of conditioning.
And what about his skill and positioning? None of those things right now are where they need to be for even a 20 year old never mind a 21 year old.

Quote:
After missing a year of condition he still was rated a better d-man by the Flames organization than Kulak and Culkin for example... playing more AHL games than them.
Culkin missed half the season to an injury. Obviously Sieloff, who played timid and was a non factor all year despite being billed as a physical defenseman, didn't get injured and didn't miss half the season.

...And is that why Kulak, and not Sieloff, was called up to the NHL for game 82?
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:24 PM   #20
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Wow, round 20 and there is still 7 or 8 prospects I like. Such as Rafikov, Sieloff, Carroll, Hathaway, Kanzig, Mangiapane and even Van Brabant. I liked Van Brabant in his few NHL games and he has good size. As for Mangiapane, I picked him out of the camp highlights without knowing his number just from how he was described.

Rafikov gets my vote here. He'd be higher if he showed more interest in coming to the Flames.
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