"Take that Calgary Puck!" — SN960 and Calgary sports media discussion

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'd agree with most of that.

Not sure there truly is an unbiased lens though. Anyone calling themselves objective or a realist really doesn't have the compass to self proclaim.

It’s a matter of degrees. Typically the less emotional investment, the less bias. I put more weight in an assessment of prospects by a third party expert without a rooting interest than in a fan. Same with an assessment of how a playoff series played out. Or trades.

The degree of bias and emotional investment I have in the Islanders vs the Hurricanes is very low, and I think I could fairly assess trade scenarios between the two - maybe not absolutely objectively, but very close. More fairly than fans of either team could.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It’s a matter of degrees. Typically the less emotional investment, the less bias. I put more weight in an assessment of prospects by a third party expert without a rooting interest than in a fan. Same with an assessment of how a playoff series played out. Or trades.

The degree of bias and emotional investment I have in the Islanders vs the Hurricanes is very low, and I think I could fairly assess trade scenarios between the two - maybe not absolutely objectively, but very close. More fairly than fans of either team could.

I agree with you but there is also a trade-off in that the fans of the team likely have a ton more knowledge on their players than you do just based on the fact they watch them a lot more than you do.

Even before he was traded - I think Flames fans had a lower view of Tkachuk than the outside media from watching him so often. Dougie Hamilton is another guy who was loved by the fancy stat crowd but when you watched him a lot - you could see the flaws. In the opposite direction - Chris Tanev is a guy who you think is just a mediocre guy when he's on the Canucks but then you watch him a bunch and see what he brings to the table.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Pinder was often pretty critical but his opinions were always backed by information and stats. In general, I would say he was on the more negative/pessimistic side but it was never baseless. It's what made him good at the job. Strong but informed opinions make for good radio.

Also cadance really matters in radio. As someone said about Nault it's not only his negative bias but the tone of his voice that makes it more difficult to take at times.

[Toonage]

If we're being honest, he was an argumentative hot head who talked over co-hosts and guests to get his point across and tried to defuse awkward moments where he went over the line by goofing it up immediately after which felt like an abusive relative trying to mend fences.

I didn't like listening to him. He ruined the segments he was on and I actively avoided him and turned off the station when he was on.

Sorry.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by getbak

If a company like Rogers is cutting things to the bone, what chance do you think an independent operation would have?

I hear you. But a local non-Rogers version could actually work although i think an on-demand podcast type platform with a website for written content would be far better.

What doesn't meet a return hurdle for Rogers (which will be high) or isn't worth the effort to fix (increase revenue/cut costs/reduce capital approach) because it doesn't move the needle or because it stands in the way of a larger more centralized scaled way of generating similar returns (national content), the heartless decision is to click delete on that business. Blah...blah...

BUT! The required return to meet Boomer's and other local folks' hurdle could be a lot less to run a radio station. Jiri knows way more than me in terms of engineering and talent costs. I just looked at local radio business in the US and it wasn't that costly to acquire the station and run, but i should note this group was terrible at getting ads/monetizing.

Blah blah...anyway....sad ending to 960 but not many are listening live anymore. Given all of the folks on here and across the city that want Flames content (Biz ruined this word), someone is going to start something that appeals, pays the bills for Boomer and his crew, and generates a little profit after. There are established relationships with sponsors and local businesses and those businesses need to advertise. 960 just wasn't the right mechanism anymore. Would Rogers flex when it comes to preserving its rights to Flames content?

[metroneck]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Also cadance really matters in radio. As someone said about Nault it's not only his negative bias but the tone of his voice that makes it more difficult to take at times.

This…. I don’t mind or care about the persona he takes on, but he uses a lot of filler words.

If Boomer or similar use 20 words to ask a question, or make a point, Nault used 40. Almost like he’s having a conversation with himself, while he speaks.

Regardless, I wish him well in his future endeavours…

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Also cadance really matters in radio. As someone said about Nault it's not only his negative bias but the tone of his voice that makes it more difficult to take at times.

When I was in J school the broadcasters sorted pretty quickly into those who had the voice to be on-air talent and those who didn’t. But that was almost 30 years ago. The industry has declined to the point where stations can’t be over-choosey about cadence, enunciation, resonance, etc. You can hear it even on the CBC, where many of their on-air broadcasters would never have made the cut in the 90s.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by activeStick

No new arena. No more hockey talk. Sucks.

The entire 960 offering was pretty stale for the last 4-5 years, and not at all consumable for listeners that aren't willing to sit down and listen to endless commercial spots that take up half their commute. I used to listen fairly religiously for years, and it just wasn't doable anymore. I also found far more engaging content (outside of pre/post game coverage which is still something I would desire) on other sources, podcasts etc that didn't require frequent ad spots and listening at set times.

Covid likely expedited the death of the station, with advertising funds drying up entirely, but it's not like Calgary is alone here. I don't imagine there will be any dedicated Canadian sports stations on am radio left in 2-3 years unless they fully re-invent themselves.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

The entire 960 offering was pretty stale for the last 4-5 years, and not at all consumable for listeners that aren't willing to sit down and listen to endless commercial spots that take up half their commute. I used to listen fairly religiously for years, and it just wasn't doable anymore. I also found far more engaging content (outside of pre/post game coverage which is still something I would desire) on other sources, podcasts etc that didn't require frequent ad spots and listening at set times.

Covid likely expedited the death of the station, with advertising funds drying up entirely, but it's not like Calgary is alone here. I don't imagine there will be any dedicated Canadian sports stations on am radio left in 2-3 years unless they fully re-invent themselves.

You obviously stepped away for the last 8-10 months because they reformatted their offering with a big push to the podcast format. The afternoon had a 3 hour block of Flames talk which would immediately be available on whatever you use for podcasts in a commercial free format. Typically 5-10 minutes into the new hour the previous hour would be up. Their afternoon slot was horrendous but Boomer’s show was a decent listen and Pinder did a Flames talk AM at 9 which I often listened to an hour or two later as I typically am in meetings at 9.

Sucks they lost 2 of the top 3 personalities but I do hope Pat and Flames talk makes a return in the fall

[Goriders]

With all of the talent leaving 960 I wonder if they are starting to lose advertising revenue. Not sure what the appeal is now and they must be losing listeners. Guessing sponsors are watching 960 implode and are wondering if their advertising dollars are better spent elsewhere.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by Goriders

With all of the talent leaving 960 I wonder if they are starting to lose advertising revenue. Not sure what the appeal is now and they must be losing listeners. Guessing sponsors are watching 960 implode and are wondering if their advertising dollars are better spent elsewhere.

The impression I have is that they sell ads to be played on all their stations, not just the sports station. How many have been sold to be played on 960 alone has likely always been a small number, so I dont know how many are directly impacted or influenced by the perceived crumbling of 960.

Having said that, I am kinda bummed about how 960 has degraded so badly. I guess it is happening all over North America, but in my small bubble here it just feels like the importance and exposure of the Flames has taken a hit in this city over the last couple years. I cant imagine the Flames themselves are too pleased with how this may impact their image either.

[heep223]

Does anyone know why Boomer left? Sorry if I missed it buried in this thread somewhere

I know Pinder is dealing with family health stuff.

Nault just sucked so whatev.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by greyshep

The impression I have is that they sell ads to be played on all their stations, not just the sports station. How many have been sold to be played on 960 alone has likely always been a small number, so I dont know how many are directly impacted or influenced by the perceived crumbling of 960.

.

There are likely different packages, including ones where the advertiser is buying spots across all stations (which would also include Lite 96 or whatever it is now), but there are certainly advertisers just paying to reach that Fan960 audience. A station like 960 has very low audience numbers overall so they live on the basis of being able to match advertisers with their more niche audience.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by heep223

Does anyone know why Boomer left? Sorry if I missed it buried in this thread somewhere

I know Pinder is dealing with family health stuff.

Nault just sucked so whatev.

I don’t know for sure but everything I’ve gathered from Boomer was basically that he was just sick of doing it and wanted to quit.

The guy had a 3am wake-up call every day. That would wear on anyone.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

The guy had a 3am wake-up call every day. That would wear on anyone.

Especially when said 3 AM wake-up call job primarily revolves around discussing the previous night's hockey game that ended around 10 PM local. And all the Pacific timezone road trips where its even later. Add having young kids on top of that and it's a miracle he lasted over a decade like that.

[megatron]

I started listening to "The Big Show" podcast in 2020, while stuck at home during lockdown, etc. and it became a part of my podcast routine. I didn't have an issue with anyone (Pinder, Steinberg, Nault, Logan, etc.).

When "Flames Talk" started earlier this year (?), I switched over to that podcast because I don't really care about NFL, MLB, CFL, etc. Sad what the FAN960 has become (I realize some of exits were the individuals choice), but I hope they keep Flames Talk and Steinberg.

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by jayswin

People always say things like this. And I'm not saying you personally wouldn't, but largely...people wouldn't. Keep in mind that stats earlier in this thread show that while the morning show hosts and the show itself were well liked, sports radio morning shows are among the lowest rated radio around, just by nature.

So you're taking some of the lowest rated radio, putting it onto a podcast that a portion of the aging Flames radio listeners aren't going to go find as opposed to flipping to the station AND you're going to charge them to do it?

Ain't happening. That's a great way to take their small thousands of daily listeners and turn it into low hundreds.

Thats how i used to feel about The Athletic. I pretty quickly came around to “you get what you pay for”. The new model is you pay for things without commercials, and that’s fine with me.

Unlike the radio, you don’t need to fill much of 16 hours a day with filler like 960 did. That keeps costs low, and it’s clear there is an opening for this content in Cgy.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

Thats how i used to feel about The Athletic. I pretty quickly came around to “you get what you pay for”. The new model is you pay for things without commercials, and that’s fine with me.

Unlike the radio, you don’t need to fill much of 16 hours a day with filler like 960 did. That keeps costs low, and it’s clear there is an opening for this content in Cgy.

As of last year, even with 1.2 million subscribers, the Athletic wasn’t making enough revenue to cover costs.

There’s just very little money in these things.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

As of last year, even with 1.2 million subscribers, the Athletic wasn’t making enough revenue to cover costs.

There’s just very little money in these things.

Enough money to get bought out by the NYT for half a billion atleast!

Not that media companies don't make terrible decisions, but there's gotta be some money to be made there. Or the founders had their own Myspace moment and cashed out at the right time...

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Enough money to get bought out by the NYT for half a billion atleast!

Not that media companies don't make terrible decisions, but there's gotta be some money to be made there. Or the founders had their own Myspace moment and cashed out at the right time...

The subscriber number is what had value. They were able to stay afloat thanks to investors regularly pumping money in, but they were a money loser.

The ability to bring 1.2 million people into your ecosystem, one where you have the experience and resources to streamline the product, is worth quite a bit. The NYT also bought Wordle for millions of dollars, an app that wasn’t making any money at the time.

How is a Calgary sports podcast going to attract a million subscribers?