Ongoing Crisis in Canadian air travel

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

And 100 years ago no one flew at all! It’s also totally irrelevant to the current crisis at Canadian airports and in the airline industry.

Flying is cheaper because for decades airlines have been competing ruthlessly to cut costs and increase volume (while customers use online tools to chase the lowest fare). That model relies on large numbers of low-paid workers operating in busy airports that handle huge volumes of travellers.

Now we’re seeing the vulnerability of that model to labour shortages. Airlines and airports will likely have to improve compensation, and travellers will foot the bill with higher fares. Combine that with fuel taxes to combat global warming, and the era of widely affordable air travel may wind down after a 30 year run, rather than endure as a long-term norm.

[White Out 403]

I wonder what the cost and benefit would be for a single high speed rail line from Vancouver to Halifax, just always running back and forth.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I wonder what the cost and benefit would be for a single high speed rail line from Vancouver to Halifax, just always running back and forth.

I became a lot more pessimistic about the possibility of transport rail in Canada when I learned transport Canada prioritizes cargo over passenger rail. I imagine you’re thinking of a new special made high-speed track coast to coast, but the cities would still be choke points, and transport Canada would continue to delay passenger rails so uh… plastic crap gets to us on time.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Flying is cheaper because for decades airlines have been competing ruthlessly to cut costs and increase volume (while customers use online tools to chase the lowest fare). That model relies on large numbers of low-paid workers operating in busy airports that handle huge volumes of travellers.

So on one hand prices are too expensive because of monopolies, and on the other hand prices are cheap because of ruthless competition?

Now we’re seeing the vulnerability of that model to labour shortages. Airlines and airports will likely have to improve compensation, and travellers will foot the bill with higher fares. Combine that with fuel taxes to combat global warming, and the era of widely affordable air travel may wind down after a 30 year run, rather than endure as a long-term norm.

I think you’re using a little bit of confirmation bias here Cliff. Every industry is vulnerable to labour shortages, even generally high paying ones. I don’t work in the air travel industry but if I had to guess, a 50% increase in fuel prices would have a much bigger impact on costs for the customers compared to say a 10% increase in wages.

Long before the current situation arose airlines had to deal with unstable fuel costs and the industry has always managed to weather that storm without the massive drop in ridership that some are predicting.

All this doom and gloom talk being used to justify how employees getting paid more would be detrimental to the greater good is nothing short of sensationalism, as is usually the case.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

So on one hand prices are too expensive because of monopolies, and on the other hand prices are cheap because of ruthless competition?

Where did I say it was too expensive because of monopolies? Flying has never been cheaper.

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I don’t work in the air travel industry but if I had to guess, a 50% increase in fuel prices would have a much bigger impact on costs for the customers compared to say a 10% increase in wages.

You’d be wrong. Labour accounts for 35 per cent of airlines’ operating expenses. Fuel accounts for 10-12 per cent. (The remainder is maintenance, parts and labor, handling luggage, airport fees, taxes, marketing, promotions, etc).

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...e-industry.asp

And that’s airlines. Much of the crunch we’re seeing in air travel is due to labour shortages at airports (luggage, security, etc) that isn’t covered by that airlines labour figure.

If we pay people who work in air travel more (and we should) then flying will become more expensive. When it becomes more expensive, people will fly less often.

[LanceUppercut]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I wonder what the cost and benefit would be for a single high speed rail line from Vancouver to Halifax, just always running back and forth.

It would be litigated into oblivion by anyone who didn't like a stretch, so it would be unlikely to ever be built, even if it was economical.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Where did I say it was too expensive because of monopolies? Flying has never been cheaper.

I was just making a comment on the general contradicting views in this thread.

You’d be wrong.

Not according to your numbers:

Labour accounts for 35 per cent of airlines’ operating expenses. Fuel accounts for 10-12 per cent. (The remainder is maintenance, parts and labor, handling luggage, airport fees, taxes, marketing, promotions, etc).

A 50 percent increase to the 10-12 percent of the overall costs for fuel is much more than a 10 percent increase to the 35 percent of the overall costs for labour.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...e-industry.asp

And that’s airlines. Much of the crunch we’re seeing in air travel is due to labour shortages at airports (luggage, security, etc) that isn’t covered by that airlines labour figure.

If we pay people who work in air travel more (and we should) then flying will become more expensive. When it becomes more expensive, people will fly less often.

Using the numbers you provided, a 10% increase in wages would lead to a roughly 3.5% increase to the overall price people pay for air travel. I don’t think that is going to a have a very significant impact on how many people travel, especially if proper staffing levels helps to improves the current situation(crisis?)

[Jbo]

Flew to Vancouver and back this weekend with WestJet.

Zero issues from security, no delays, and overall great experience.

Must have lucked out

[Nufy]

Waiting for my flight to depart this morning.

Its absolutely amazing what some people think they can carry on a flight.

A guy was in zone 5 I think and got rejected when he tried to bring on a full keyboard.

A few others had guitars and stuff.

I understand the importance but when you are one of the last to board you have to know there wont be any space left

[Nufy]

You would almost think they are lined up for a boxing day sale

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Jbo

Flew to Vancouver and back this weekend with WestJet.

Zero issues from security, no delays, and overall great experience.

Must have lucked out

The worst of the issues are if you're flying international, and it involves Toronto. The media has created hysteria that the entire country is in absolute shambles which is mostly untrue.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Acey

The worst of the issues are if you're flying international, and it involves Toronto. The media has created hysteria that the entire country is in absolute shambles which is mostly untrue.

Right. I flew through Pearson when it seemed most dire (Canada Day). There were definitely issues, but it isn't as if half the flights were cancelled. Was it even 10%? Crap sandwich for those affected, but the majority were unscathed.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by Acey

The worst of the issues are if you're flying international, and it involves Toronto. The media has created hysteria that the entire country is in absolute shambles which is mostly untrue.

Agreed. Based on media was expecting the worst. Even got to the airport 2 hours early for a domestic flight. Was a long wait for the flight to leave

[chemgear]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/del...ment-1.6557310

Toronto's Pearson airport now 2nd worst in world for delays.

Sherefa says Air Canada staff didn't offer hotel accommodation for the night, and instead passed out yoga mats to stranded travellers.

Sherefa says she slept that night on one of the mats on the floor of a women's nursing room at the airport.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Where did I say it was too expensive because of monopolies? Flying has never been cheaper.

Only to major hubs though, in the early 80's I could fly from Sydney N.S to Calgary for $150.00(about $450 in todays money), good luck finding that price today, plus, back then the stand-by tickets were crazy if you were winning to wait a few hours, I once flew Calgary - Toronto first class on a wardair 747 for $32.00

[Tsawwassen]

I know this doesn't pertain to air travel in Canada, but, this one is whacked out.
An American Airlines passenger says a stranger discovered her lost luggage in Hamburg — where she hadn't visited and American doesn't fly to

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/new...2582ab534b61e6

[Tsawwassen]

YVR had major delays for passengers getting through security on Sunday.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9090863/l...ouver-airport/

[Johnny199r]

I recently flew to Italy via Montreal. No issues.

On the way back, the arrivals/connections area of YUL was a disaster. People cutting lines, only one staff member that people were ignoring to do as they pleased, a lack of direction where to go, a lack of infrastructure from signage to crowd control.

It seems really easy to fix, but it seems like it’s just not a priority for them. Tons of people were missing their connections within Canada and freaking out.

[Muta]

Awesome! Can't wait to arrive in Montreal tomorrow, haha.

[D as in David]

How early are people getting to YYC these days for domestic flights? Airlines are suggesting 120 minutes.