[Trade] Hanifin (salary retained) to Vegas for Miromanov + 2026 1st + cond 3rd

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Conroy worked them on the conditions. Sure, trade the first if it means that our 3rd has a better chance to become a 2nd. Sure, once you have traded your futures we will roll the dice on how you do with an older lineup in 25/26 and have no conditions on that pick.

I agree with this

[Enoch Root]

It is a very small chance, but there is a chance that the 1st could turn out to be 1OA, in a year with a generational talent. Could you imagine if that actually transpires and we get that kid (McKenna is it?) from this deal?

"Conroy got worked on the conditions". Okay then.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The next challenge for Conroy is to properly value the 'new' 1st round picks. GMs have a tendency to be more loosey goosey with acquired first round picks vs their own. Don't want to start chucking them around because you've got extra picks.

I think that's a far concern. OTOH I feel like draft picks are at their highest premium on draft day- I don't know what a trade would look like that would make me happy but there are some returns I could get behind . then conversely picks become cheaper to acquire again in free agency so hoping we could garner even more or recoup through deployment of cap space

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It is a very small chance, but there is a chance that the 1st could turn out to be 1OA, in a year with a generational talent. Could you imagine if that actually transpires and we get that kid (McKenna is it?) from this deal?

"Conroy got worked on the conditions". Okay then.

[bax]

After sleeping on it I am feeling more than comfortable with the trade.

It’s not perfect, but we got some quality assets considering Conroy’s hands were tied by Brisson.

The biggest takeaway for me is that the page has officially been turned from the Treliving era. The UFA crop is all gone and the direction of this team hasn’t been this crystal clear in decades.

We have our vets signed long term for the rebuild in Huberdeau, Kadri, Coleman, and Weegar. A good crop of players to enforce good habits and instill a strong culture on the young players, but not good enough to keep us away from some high draft picks.

We have our “mid term” players that will likely be gone before we are competitive again and can be used to get future assets in Markstrom, Mangiapane, Vladar, Kuzmenko, Sharangovich, Miromanov.

We have a fairly solid prospect base coming up (lacking blue chip pieces though) in Zary, Coronato, Pelletier, Honzek, Pospisil, Wolf, Poirer, Brz, Grushnikov, Morin.

And finally we have some draft capital. Two firsts this year, two firsts next year, and a bunch of extra mid round picks. You can never have enough and I would love for them to get another first for Markstrom considering we have incentive to bad next season.

Time for our scouting staff to earn their keep and swing for the fences. Long shot, but a little lottery luck would be huge for this franchise too. We are certainly due for a bit of that.

[8sPOT]

Originally Posted by DropIt

Isnt it the worse of the 2 picks that is Florida or Calgary's

Oh maybe, I didn't realize that. Thats not so bad then.

[420since1974]

I think that Vegas wanted this trade to happen when it did so they would still have time to try and get Jake Guentzel from Pittsburgh. The Penguins are seeking a first-round pick and multiple young assets. This is probably why Vegas insisted on that condition of the 2025 1st round pick to Calgary.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It is a very small chance, but there is a chance that the 1st could turn out to be 1OA, in a year with a generational talent. Could you imagine if that actually transpires and we get that kid (McKenna is it?) from this deal?

"Conroy got worked on the conditions". Okay then.

I mean, Vegas did miss the playoffs two seasons ago and they will only be older by then.

At the very least it could be great fun to cheer against them all season long for an extra shot in the lottery.

Eichel will be 29
Karlsson will be 33
Barbashev will be 31
Stone will be 33
Pietrangelo will be 36

It’s a long shot for sure, but not a bad gamble if they run into injury issues or something.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It is a very small chance, but there is a chance that the 1st could turn out to be 1OA, in a year with a generational talent. Could you imagine if that actually transpires and we get that kid (McKenna is it?) from this deal?

"Conroy got worked on the conditions". Okay then.

And if Vegas uses their 25 1st to improve their team this year, it increases their chances of getting through the 1st round, which would mean the 3rd turns into a 2nd.

Every condition benefits the Flames. It’s surreal reading people suggest they “got worked” on them.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Conroy worked them on the conditions. Sure, trade the first if it means that our 3rd has a better chance to become a 2nd. Sure, once you have traded your futures we will roll the dice on how you do with an older lineup in 25/26 and have no conditions on that pick.

GMs are much smarter now. So yeah the only way you get an unprotected pick that has the upside of a high pick is by pushing it out a couple years.

[bigrangy]

Yep, really hoping for this to be the 2026 pick. Unprotected firsts are all I want.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The time to trade Noah to maximize return was 2022, when Johnny and Chucky left.

It didn't happen, and as time progressed Noah gained trade control and likely narrowed his view of where he'd sign.

This Noah Hanifin situation is no different than the Jarome Iginla situation (if you take the emotional attachment to Iggy out). The Flames kept the asset and spun their tires in irrelevancy beyond the logical jumping off point.

That is to say that if you're upset with the Hanifin return, then perhaps you should start thinking it's time to trade Rasmus Andersson now/this Summer when there's term left on his contract so we don't have to get tied to whether or not he'll re-sign where we're trading him. Extract value from the term remaining.

LOL then you would have gotten even less than what we got yesterday.

Him and Rasmus put on one of the worst d plays in Flames history against the Oilers! It was like Eloranta, Baxter, Butler, Ericksson, Osterle bad! lol

[sa226]

I'd love to know what the Tampa offer was. Realistically it would be kind of a "rental" for them as well. Meaning, why would Tampa, a team that is very light on futures and needs to start looking with one eye towards the future as their window is starting to close, deal a bunch of futures for a guy that is going to sign in the summer anyway.

Tampa probably didn't think that Hanifin moved the needle enough for them this season to spend a bunch of their already limited futures on a player they're going to get for free in 5 months anyway.

Is it an underwhelming return? Yeah kinda. Is it Conroys fault? Not in the least.

It sucks from our standpoint, but kudos to Hanifin and Brisson for maneuvering the way they did.

What would you say would bring this deal to respectability? Any 1st rounder is going to be bottom of the draft from a contender loading up. We got onto of those. We got the 3rd/2nd. Plus we got a youngish player that the scouts and management had their eyes on. I'd say the deal could use a B prospect or another 2nd to bring it to something I'd be happy with right here, right now.

But 5 years from now, with all of the moving parts in a rebuild, I don't think that 2nd or B prospect is going to move the needle towards a contender in 5 to 7 years.



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[Gaudreau is a Ninja]

Man last night was brutal! Trade happens with no details, this allows flame fans to completely go overboard on what the return might be. Then finally after hours the trade happens….CONROY GOT FLEECED!!! Is what most were saying.

Conroy got a 1st that has the potential to be unprotected in 2026(not sure if this is confirmed) and a 3rd that can turn into a 2nd if Vegas wins a round. That’s already pretty good! Plus a signed 26 year old offensive d-man that has been playing behind Vegas’s top six.

This is a good trade with the potential to be very good! Great job Connie! Go Flames Go!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Still see this as a bad deal, no way to spin it. The fact that Conroy accepted the ridiculous number of conditions is the part that makes this hurt the most. All control in this deal was/is in Vegas' court. For Christ sake, the only pick in this deal that holds no conditions is the one that goes to Philadelphia for retention! Las Vegas still has potential to trade a pick that they have already traded to us. Let that sink in. Conroy gave the Knights the ability to use the very pick he traded "the best available defenseman at the deadline" for to make another deal, which may result in another team getting a better deal than the Flames. I mean, what just happened?

I would have been happy if he came away with solid assets and not conditional ones. Even ones years out like these look they are going to be. The conditions are just batty and joke to be honest. The conditions weaken the Flames position at each turn, which is just poor value when you look at the whole deal. Flames retain, and don't get anything of value. No additional pick nor quality prospect. The primary return are conditional picks where Vegas gets opportunity to leverage those picks for greater return with the Flames receiving anything of value. The "prospect" returned would not make any prospect list of value as the player has already aged out. The "prospect" is 23 weeks younger than the guy he was traded for. That's not a prospect. That's not value. I really don't see how anyone could consider this anything but a terrible return and a young GM being worked over.

So you're operating under the assumption that he was offered better and turned it down for kicks?

Was offered better but wasn't smart enough to differentiate between the two?

Hanifin didn't sign.

So he did take the best offer he could from the two Florida teams, he shopped it and found a rental deal that was better.

That's the very definition of not accepting your plight and making it better.

Everyone has a right to be disappointed at the market, or annoyed with the agent and player, but to judge the deal with some fan built view of what should have happened is silly.

[Toonage]

Feels all but guaranteed that Vegas spends their 25 1st on probably Guentzel and the Flames do get that 26 1st unprotected.

[calumniate]

I'm just happy Conroy is adding ammo into his clip, and not shooting blanks on guys like Bollig and the plethora of other pluggers we'd given up picks for

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I think it’s really weird every time this argument comes up. Do I think he took a worse deal on purpose? Obviously not, because nobody in the entire world would think that. He’s probably just bad at assessing value in his deals, is bad at negotiating, or has a poor eye for talent.

Feaster was terrible at trades too, but he of course always took the best deal available. Doesn’t change the perception though, does it?

I don’t know why you among others feel the need to police people’s opinions, like calling a spade a spade is somehow way out there. Everyone outside of CalPuck is calling this deal an L for the Flames. Mysteriously, this Russian no-name went from a contract throw-in before we knew the return, to intriguing young player with upside after. Wonder what changed? When you look around the general opinion of Conroy is that he’s gotten mediocre to poor returns on his trades. It’s not just me who believes this. And even if it were, why do you care so much? Does me not liking Conroy’s moves as a GM bother you that much?

Get over yourself.

I'm replying to a message on a message board with my opinion just like you.

And there are plenty of differences.

Feaster moved Bouwmeester a year early for a weak package. Didn't have to make the move.

Regehr to Buffalo ... didn't have to make the move.

Iginla ... he was boxed in, and he was a UFA. Comparable.

There was talk that Sutter moved Phaneuf without talking to the league ... didn't have to make the move.

Hanifin to Vegas was done in a window with less than 2 days to expiry and a build up that took almost a year.

I can see a difference. If you can't fill your boots.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And if Vegas uses their 25 1st to improve their team this year, it increases their chances of getting through the 1st round, which would mean the 3rd turns into a 2nd.

Every condition benefits the Flames. It’s surreal reading people suggest they “got worked” on them.

Yeah this really has me cheering for a big splash by Vegas in the next day. Feels like win/win.

[Strange Brew]

Look it was kind of funny listening to Steinberg and company pivot as the evening went on.

First when Miromanov was the only piece mentioned, it was really downplayed. Speculated that he was included to help Vegas lower their number of contracts so they could make another move.

Then f they went on about the supposed horrible Tampa offer and how the best piece of that offer was a first round pick way out in 2026.

So hard not to listen to all of that and hear some rationalization going on now that the full package has been revealed. I think it's fair to say that the defenseman was not highly valued across the league but we'll see. I assume he would have been available as a UFA this summer.

I vividly remember Conroy coming on the radio after the Iginla trade. He acknowledged that Hanowski and Agostino were not blue chip prospects, that Flames were not trading a prime Iginla at that point in his career and how important it was that they got the first round pick right.

Well this package is definitely a little better than that one. The defenseman is hopefully a better prospect than either of those two, although he is quite a bit older. And if the pick is a second, that is even better. The first rounder being pushed out a year or two isn't as good obviously.

None of that matters now though. Flames need to be right about their evaluation of their prospects acquired and do a good job at the draft table.