Windows 7: More disapointing as the days go on

[Red]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

It's more like comparing an $8 bottle of shampoo with an $50 bottle that happens to have the same formula and does the same job.

Not really, the Mac will cost you 20% more if that. And you do get a pretty solid system, not just specs in a cheap box.
Especially laptops, there is a reason why IBM laptops cost a premium, they lasted. Most of the new Acer, HP, Toshiba laptops are cheaply built junk. Especially the keyboards.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Similarly, if you were to go and buy your girlfriend a 3 carat diamond ring from the local pawn shop, while I went to get mine a 3 carat diamond ring from Tifffany's, there would be a considerable price difference...Yet it's the same thing... Further, one would get you engaged, while the other had better come with a full return policy.

Your girlfriend would decide if she wants to marry you or not based on where you bought her ring from and more specifically, how much you paid for it?! Wow. Sucks to be you.

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Here's the thing. You could get a bunch of old lawnmowers together and build a wicked-ass go cart. It would cost you next to nothing because, well, old lawnmowers are cheap. Said go cart would do fine in a race against a nice looking, smooth running go cart with an equal amount of horsepower.
So you see, just because a machine is cheaper and does the same thing, doesn't mean it's comparable to a machine of equal capability, generally speaking.

Similarly, if you were to go and buy your girlfriend a 3 carat diamond ring from the local pawn shop, while I went to get mine a 3 carat diamond ring from Tifffany's, there would be a considerable price difference...Yet it's the same thing... Further, one would get you engaged, while the other had better come with a full return policy.

More often than not in a marketplace, a product with a higher price point is going to be more pleasing and pleasurable than a cheaper product with similar capabilities.

Buying a Mac isn't about penny squeezing, it's about purchasing a well thought out, well designed, and well built product.

The point is that buying a product of similar quality costs just as much to do if you go the Windows route.

Worst analogies ever. Seriously, do you really think my system, or any windows based system custom built is a bunch of old lawn mower parts bought at a pawn shop?

My parts are top of the line, brand new, in the box, warrantied parts. It has a full return and care policy and is, in your own words, well thought out, well designed and a well built product.

So I bought quality but I didn't have to pay the Apple premium simply for buying Apple.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Worst analogies ever. Seriously, do you really think my system, or any windows based system custom built is a bunch of old lawn mower parts bought at a pawn shop?

My parts are top of the line, brand new, in the box, warrantied parts. It has a full return and care policy and is, in your own words, well thought out, well designed and a well built product.

So I bought quality but I didn't have to pay the Apple premium simply for buying Apple.

Thant's not entirely true though. Most sys admins won't touch a clone becasue they are not reliable. We complain about the IBMs, Dells etc, but they are tested and robust windows PCs. They won't have the best specs, but they won't fail you as much as clones that were put together on the spot.

[Phaneuf3]

Since we evidently have a few apple fanboys here, I'm curious to get their thoughts on this...
What's the general feeling about installing Mac OSX on a non-apple computer? Say for example I wanted to put it on a Dell mini 9. According to this site:
http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/1...-compatib.html
and many other guides around the net, the compatibility on that one is great. More or less... what is it you love so much about Apple computers that you would defend their honor to such a religious level or fervor? Is it the OS? The hardware components? The casing? The commercials? The price tag? The shiny Apple sticker? How much of the "Apple experience" would I be missing out on here?



Note: This is not troll bait. I am seriously considering doing this and am curious what the Apple faithful's take is on this. If you've read my post you'll know I'm not against OSX in any way, just against buying overpriced and overpowered, unnecessary hardware.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Your girlfriend would decide if she wants to marry you or not based on where you bought her ring from and more specifically, how much you paid for it?! Wow. Sucks to be you.

So is it safe to assume you buy your christmas gifts at garage sales?

[OBCT]

Everybody is talking about different things here. I don't really want to interject, as it's been a lot of fun following this derailed train of a thread, but I feel I should point a couple of things out.


FanIn80's point that it is not possible to find or put together a PC with the same or better specs as the new iMac w/ 27" IPS display at this very moment in time is valid. If this is the computer you want right now, buy Apple. FanIn80 goes on to make several other points about putting together very high-end systems and prices being very similar between Apple and PC. He makes some fair points with some valid examples, but I don't think he proved the point that "any available Apple system will be at least as inexpensive as any comparable PC system, across the board". A couple of examples of cheaper PC builds than the comparable Apple system were presented. Notably, it seems as though the cheaper you go with a PC build, the less likely it is that a comparable Apple system will be able to compete dollars-wise. Which leads to the next point...

The point that has been made more than once about PCs in the ~$900 or less range being a good buy for a budget-minded person (not willing to spend a grand on a computer) is also valid. There are no new Apple computers available in this price range; the only choice is PC (this discussion is about new computers... used/refurbished is a whole 'nother can o' worms).

The point about Apple computers being generally easier to maintain/get warranty work done on is generally valid. Their systems are proprietary, and thus consistent, and their focus on customer service is as good as any PC brand, by most reports. It is also easier to get repair work done on the entire system as a whole, opposed to the individual parts of a custom PC build, for example.

The point about PCs being more customizable is also valid. Even though Apple has now added moduled builds into their repertoire, making upgradability a legitimate possibility, Apple users' choices are limited to a single manufacturer's offerings, and without competition on pricing, these upgrades aren't necessarily going to be a bargain. PC users have much more flexibility to interchange towers, mobos, memory, storage, peripherals, etc, etc, though that flexibility does require some caution, as compatibility can be confusing if you don't know what you're doing.


In summation, if you want to physically build your own computer, you're going to go with PC no matter what. There are many advantages to those people who know how to do this and have the time to get their system exactly how they want it. One of the inherent advantages of going this route is cost savings, as every individual part can be sourced at the lowest price, and no cost of labour, installation is going into the purchase of a prebuilt system. Because of these reasons and others, a prebuilt Apple system will not compete price-wise with a comparable custombuilt PC.

Comparing prebuilt Apples with prebuilt PCs brings the prices closer together. I still happen to think that if you wait for the right sale PCs can be had at lower costs than comparable Apples, but the difference in price is much lower now than it used to be, for sure.

If you're looking for brand new, top-of-the-line technology and are willing to pay for it, then Apple is a compelling choice in many circumstances. In the case of their exclusive 27" monitor, you have no other choice in the market; in other similar cases, Apple systems are nearly identical in terms of price, sometimes cheaper than comparable high-end prebuilt PCs.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Since we evidently have a few apple fanboys here, I'm curious to get their thoughts on this...
What's the general feeling about installing Mac OSX on a non-apple computer? Say for example I wanted to put it on a Dell mini 9. According to this site:
http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/1...-compatib.html
and many other guides around the net, the compatibility on that one is great. More or less... what is it you love so much about Apple computers that you would defend their honor to such a religious level or fervor? Is it the OS? The hardware components? The casing? The commercials? The price tag? The shiny Apple sticker? How much of the "Apple experience" would I be missing out on here?




Note: This is not troll bait. I am seriously considering doing this and am curious what the Apple faithful's take is on this. If you've read my post you'll know I'm not against OSX in any way, just against buying overpriced and overpowered, unnecessary hardware.

I've actually done this. I bought a HP Mini 10" and installed OSX 10.5.8 on it, be cause I prefer OSX to XP. I use it as a netbook, for surfing and emailing. It's awesome, and it only cost me $235.00 for the netbook. I used to have MBP now i have a iMac and a Hackintosh Nano.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Worst analogies ever. Seriously, do you really think my system, or any windows based system custom built is a bunch of old lawn mower parts bought at a pawn shop?

Glad you asked. Yes.

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

My parts are top of the line, brand new, in the box, warrantied parts. It has a full return and care policy and is, in your own words, well thought out, well designed and a well built product.

I doubt it. If they were top of the line they'd be Apple parts. PC's don't come with a return policy.

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

So I bought quality but I didn't have to pay the Apple premium simply for buying Apple.

I guess the word quality is relative.

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Glad you asked. Yes.



I doubt it. If they were top of the line they'd be Apple parts. PC's don't come with a return policy.



I guess the word quality is relative.

Hard to argue with someone as clearly uneducated on the subject as you are.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Glad you asked. Yes.



I doubt it. If they were top of the line they'd be Apple parts. PC's don't come with a return policy.



I guess the word quality is relative.

It's nice to see Apple propaganda really does work.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Hard to argue with someone as clearly uneducated on the subject as you are.

Hard to joke with someone as serious about the subject as you are.

[HotHotHeat]

Anyways. I have a question about Windows 7.

When I download the 'upgrade' from the MS website, do I have to burn it to a disk before I install it? Or will it upgrade from the harddrive file?

Tough to pick up on humour over the interwebs.

I dunno about the Win7 d/l, as I have the retail version.

Are you going to install it on your Mac?

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Red

Thant's not entirely true though. Most sys admins won't touch a clone becasue they are not reliable. We complain about the IBMs, Dells etc, but they are tested and robust windows PCs. They won't have the best specs, but they won't fail you as much as clones that were put together on the spot.

Um no.

We buy them because they come with a service contract from a company who likely wont be bankrupt before the 3 year contract ends so that we dont have to spend money on extra IT staff overhead. And so that we have an online community source of support well after the paid support contract is done. Also because we know based on part/model number that each machine with that will have the same hardware so we dont have to worry about a broadcom nic in one and an an intel one in another. We can make one image for 200 computers.

Alberta govt crown corps were famous for ordering clone copies from their supporters. You then get a computer that is supposed to be the same but they decided to put in a different mobo because they couldnt source the one you ordered. They think because its more expensive that its better.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Hard to joke with someone as serious about the subject as you are.

internet sarcasm - you're doing it wrong...

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Tough to pick up on humour over the interwebs.

I dunno about the Win7 d/l, as I have the retail version.

Are you going to install it on your Mac?

Macbook and PC desktop. 39.99 for the student upgrade is too good to pass up.

[Pagal4321]

So anyone have any actual things to say about Windows 7?

Or is this just a glorified pissing match between PC and Mac?

[kermitology]

Is there a way to tell if your computer is capable of installing Windows 7?

[mykalberta]

I will install Windows 7 next weekend and post a vid.