[Trade] Hanifin (salary retained) to Vegas for Miromanov + 2026 1st + cond 3rd

[Major Major]

The Toffoli and Lindholm trades were homeruns. The others are pretty meh I suppose, but we will see. But the important thing is that he didn't get caught with his dick in his hand like Burke and got the picks. Some seem really bent out of shape about what Twitter thinks. Give it some time.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I think it’s really weird every time this argument comes up. Do I think he took a worse deal on purpose? Obviously not, because nobody in the entire world would think that. He’s probably just bad at assessing value in his deals, is bad at negotiating, or has a poor eye for talent.

Feaster was terrible at trades too, but he of course always took the best deal available. Doesn’t change the perception though, does it?

I don’t know why you among others feel the need to police people’s opinions, like calling a spade a spade is somehow way out there. Everyone outside of CalPuck is calling this deal an L for the Flames. Mysteriously, this Russian no-name went from a contract throw-in before we knew the return, to intriguing young player with upside after. Wonder what changed? When you look around the general opinion of Conroy is that he’s gotten mediocre to poor returns on his trades. It’s not just me who believes this. And even if it were, why do you care so much? Does me not liking Conroy’s moves as a GM bother you that much?

"everyone"

Who's everyone? And what gives their opinion or analysis that much weight?

[delayedreflex]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Still see this as a bad deal, no way to spin it. The fact that Conroy accepted the ridiculous number of conditions is the part that makes this hurt the most. All control in this deal was/is in Vegas' court. For Christ sake, the only pick in this deal that holds no conditions is the one that goes to Philadelphia for retention! Las Vegas still has potential to trade a pick that they have already traded to us. Let that sink in. Conroy gave the Knights the ability to use the very pick he traded "the best available defenseman at the deadline" for to make another deal, which may result in another team getting a better deal than the Flames. I mean, what just happened?

I would have been happy if he came away with solid assets and not conditional ones. Even ones years out like these look they are going to be. The conditions are just batty and joke to be honest. The conditions weaken the Flames position at each turn, which is just poor value when you look at the whole deal. Flames retain, and don't get anything of value. No additional pick nor quality prospect. The primary return are conditional picks where Vegas gets opportunity to leverage those picks for greater return with the Flames receiving anything of value. The "prospect" returned would not make any prospect list of value as the player has already aged out. The "prospect" is 23 weeks younger than the guy he was traded for. That's not a prospect. That's not value. I really don't see how anyone could consider this anything but a terrible return and a young GM being worked over.

I guess this depends on when you see the Flames next window being and the relative strengths of the 2025 and 2026 drafts. If, for example, the 2026 draft is very deep and 2025 is thin I can see why Conroy wouldn’t worry much about the pick slipping a year. And there is a good chance that the pick in 2026 will be higher than the one in 2025 - so there is really no guarantee that a player picked lower in the 2025 draft will start making a difference sooner than a higher pick in 2026. Either way the asset is probably making the NHL closer to 2028 than sooner.

Agree that Miromanov doesn’t look like much of a prospect, so let’s hope he turns outti be a pleasant surprise like Sharangovich. From an optics perspective picks probably look better than prospects even though in reality most picks don’t pan out.

[bluejays]

My view now that things have simmered down a bit is that any GM can’t just mysteriously pluck an extra 1st or blue chip project out of nowhere. It really comes down to market conditions. This year seems to have swung in favour of the buyer which really sucks. Particular GMs probably had a thing for particular players such as Winnipeg and Monahan and paying the price there but it is what it is. All I can say is over and over again we can’t let it get to this point again for our pending UFAs. Deal them before they get to this state. The market winds blew unexpectedly but can’t do anything about it. Would have been nice if Conroy was able to squeeze out a little more or better conditions but it could be growing pains.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Still see this as a bad deal, no way to spin it. The fact that Conroy accepted the ridiculous number of conditions is the part that makes this hurt the most. All control in this deal was/is in Vegas' court. For Christ sake, the only pick in this deal that holds no conditions is the one that goes to Philadelphia for retention! Las Vegas still has potential to trade a pick that they have already traded to us. Let that sink in. Conroy gave the Knights the ability to use the very pick he traded "the best available defenseman at the deadline" for to make another deal, which may result in another team getting a better deal than the Flames. I mean, what just happened?

I would have been happy if he came away with solid assets and not conditional ones. Even ones years out like these look they are going to be. The conditions are just batty and joke to be honest. The conditions weaken the Flames position at each turn, which is just poor value when you look at the whole deal. Flames retain, and don't get anything of value. No additional pick nor quality prospect. The primary return are conditional picks where Vegas gets opportunity to leverage those picks for greater return with the Flames receiving anything of value. The "prospect" returned would not make any prospect list of value as the player has already aged out. The "prospect" is 23 weeks younger than the guy he was traded for. That's not a prospect. That's not value. I really don't see how anyone could consider this anything but a terrible return and a young GM being worked over.

The return is soft for sure.

But disagree on the conditions. In the end it's providing Vegas flexibility...but really doesn't hurt the return from the Flames side at all unless we are being impatient.

If Vegas doesn't trade the pick we have a 2025 with top 10 protection.

If Vegas trades the pick then we have a 2026 with no protection.

IMO both of those picks potentially have more value than the Vegas 2024 that could be 28-32 since it sounds like Vegas is loading up with the LTIR space they have.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I think it’s really weird every time this argument comes up. Do I think he took a worse deal on purpose? Obviously not, because nobody in the entire world would think that. He’s probably just bad at assessing value in his deals, is bad at negotiating, or has a poor eye for talent.

Feaster was terrible at trades too, but he of course always took the best deal available. Doesn’t change the perception though, does it?

I don’t know why you among others feel the need to police people’s opinions, like calling a spade a spade is somehow way out there. Everyone outside of CalPuck is calling this deal an L for the Flames. Mysteriously, this Russian no-name went from a contract throw-in before we knew the return, to intriguing young player with upside after. Wonder what changed? When you look around the general opinion of Conroy is that he’s gotten mediocre to poor returns on his trades. It’s not just me who believes this. And even if it were, why do you care so much? Does me not liking Conroy’s moves as a GM bother you that much?

I don’t think he has a bad eye for talent at all. I think it’s a rookie GM, and he panicked and pulled the trigger too early. Love the Conman, but he got worked on this one.

[bucksmasher]

No one on social media is talking about how much the player controlled/drove the trade. We were warned weeks ago that the return would be low. No surprises here.

[ditty]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

didnt Ottawa get an additional pick once Karlson resigned in SJ?

Ryan Pike mentioned last night that conditional picks used to be allowed but are no longer allowed, as per the new CBA.

[Caboose]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Still see this as a bad deal, no way to spin it. The fact that Conroy accepted the ridiculous number of conditions is the part that makes this hurt the most.

If the Flames received a 2024 1st and a 2024 3rd with zero conditions, would this trade have been acceptable to you?

The conditions on the first just determines if the Flames get the pick in one or two years. That doesn't seem like anything to get worked up about. The condition on the third just moves it up a round in the very likely event Vegas wins a round. That also seems fairly benign.

Getting future picks is a good move in my mind. Opens up the possibility of the pick being higher, or having more time to move it for something else, or just spreading out draft capital to keep the system full. Nothing wrong with that IMO!

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If you want to spin negatively, sure.

It's a 1st and a 3rd minimum, very possibly a 1st and a 2nd.

And now 2.5 years to see if this Dman can "pop' with a better opportunity.

6'4, 210lbs
Right shot
Good skater
68 points in 89 AHL games despite battling injuries and buried on the depth chart of a contender

I didnt mean to spin it negativity. It was a late night last night, I've been dealing with my 5 year old daughter with a stomach flu, and had been waiting to see if the return had been confirmed.

I'm just happy they traded him. I hope the new defender excels and becomes a legit player. I hope the pick turns out to be a good one, and the Flames drop in the standings to get a better pick this year.

[Mass_nerder]

The deal is okay; not great but I don't think it's as bad as some do. Ultimately it was a trade for a rental player, and that's the value that we got. Whether Hanifin signs there before July 1 unfortunately doesn't really come into play in the deal.
In fact, if Vegas is confident that the city/arena/team and Eichel connection, they probably preferred that this wasn't a sign and trade.

Miromanov sounds like he brings some intriguing qualities to the team, but at 27, I don't think he's going to be a long-term piece of the puzzle. We need guys to fill spots until some of our younger players break through, so that's fine.

Now to let the bottom fall out and get into the top 5 in the draft.

[Bonded]

The thing I’m most shocked about is Lindholm having the most value. If would have got a haul last deadline.

[bluejays]

The thing about those claiming he got worked is it’s determined by the market. All it takes is one GM to love your guy and he’ll give a sweetheart deal. I’m frankly shocked that after months of back and forth this is the best deal a GM ponied up for for a two way dman. That’s mind blowing that nobody gave up more for a position largely thought to be highly coveted and rarely available in quality. So I don’t put that on Conroy. It’s frustrating as #### though. I also don’t agree with the apologists who defend the “prospect” coming back. He won’t move the needle if he works out. Who else was chasing this guy and what’s the best outcome. Not much. But anyway, we move on.

[prizefighterinferno]

Yeah the chances of Vegas trading the '25 pick are extremely high imo, which makes the unprotected '26 1st in the Gavin Mckenna draft very intriguing. Could easily see Vegas taking a big step back in a couple years as almost all their best players already have major injury issues and there's not likely to be much in the way of young players coming up and rejuvenating the roster.

[#-3]

I woke up this morning feeling a lot better about the trade.

I'd been preaching that getting unprotected further out picks from good teams is better, especially when you are already loaded up for this draft. That's exactly what they did.

I expected a 1st a 3rd and a prospect was the correct return, It's what we got, with maybe a roster player if it was needed to make contracts work. I want to be underwhelmed by the prospect, but truthfully I have seen exactly two multi-second clips of him playing hockey ever, and both were last night, so I will do what I can to not judge him by a stats card, or reaching the NHL a little later than average.

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by 8sPOT

I’m more concerned that Montreal has our 1st round pick next year, that could end up being a really great pick.

Isnt it the worse of the 2 picks that is Florida or Calgary's

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by Major Major

The Toffoli and Lindholm trades were homeruns. The others are pretty meh I suppose, but we will see. But the important thing is that he didn't get caught with his dick in his hand like Burke and got the picks. Some seem really bent out of shape about what Twitter thinks. Give it some time.

It’s a terrible trade. He basically got the same thing Mtl did for Monahan. We just turned our top d pairing into lottery tickets next year. Not a single decent prospect. It’s objectively pretty bad.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Ped

Not here at all to criticize Conroy, who has probably done as good a job as you could expect given the situation and has taken in some real assets.


But imo, saying "obviously he got the best deal he could get" is not an actual valid defense. You could say that with any GM, including Dim Jim and Mike Milbury and Peter Chiarelli. Because it may not be the best deal, but the best deal in the judgement of the GM. The GM could be very wrong in his assessment on what he's taking in.


Conroy took flack for the Toffoli trade, but Sharky has turned out pretty well. And clearly with Miromanov, the Flames are looking for young-ish guys with potential still that have fallen through the cracks with their former teams. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.


But I think it is absolutely fair to wonder about a GM's talent assessment if trades don't go well. It's too early of course, to know for sure, but just because this is the best deal according to Conroy, doesn't mean it was actually the best deal.


Everyone wants to judge trades immediately. This one, like all of Conroy's thus far, will take some time.

When you are essentially dealing with draft picks, it much easier to judge.

[Geeoff]

I'm personally rooting for this to be a 2026 unprotected pick

[Badgers Nose]

Yeah, I doubt there was a league wide conspiracy to stiff Conroy. And that’s what it would have taken to intentionally deflate value.

The whole league had months to scout him and come up with offers. This is what he is worth. When we were all sober a year ago, this is about what we would have expected. We all got drunk of rumours and that’s why some are disappointed.