Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Locke

Direct Deposit is actually quite an expensive program for small businesses.

Cheques are cheap and simple especially now that they can be deposited by phone.

Good God man, why are you taking sense.

Its 2024. Literally no excuse to not do direct deposit. Especially if you are working with senior citizens who have nobody to help them actually setup direct deposit. Get with the program. I mean just ask belsarius how things are supposed to be done these days!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

A lot of businesses operate that way. I think it’s this abundance of businesses that people are claiming only mail out paycheques rather than just handing them to their employees that posters are questioning.

Its not just paying people.

Tons of businesses still pay their suppliers via cheque as well.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Exactly. I’m sure a lot of small businesses do issue physical cheques. Fantastic! The portion of those paying the expense to also mail them out? Uh, near zero I imagine.

The number that couldn’t simply cancel a cheque they mailed out and get it to their employee literally any other way? Significantly less than above, even.

When you deal with suppliers located in other provinces, mailing out cheques is literally the only way payment has been made.

These suppliers are dragging their heals to make payment now.

This isn't complicated.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Azure

Good God man, why are you taking sense.

Its 2024. Literally no excuse to not do direct deposit. Especially if you are working with senior citizens who have nobody to help them actually setup direct deposit. Get with the program. I mean just ask belsarius how things are supposed to be done these days!

Originally Posted by Azure

Its not just paying people.

Tons of businesses still pay their suppliers via cheque as well.

Small businesses have lots of things they have consider. Dealing with multiple banks, suppliers, employees, there are a lot of considerations.

Some people think that Direct Deposit for payroll is a 'No Brainer' but depending on the size of your business and your payroll thats simply not the case.

Getting it set up, the fees and operating it? Not to mention, remittances have to made to CPP, EI and CRA between different institutions and for those to be made cash-flow is important and thats not even considering basics such as rent, insurance, suppliers, etc you can go on and on.

Sometimes people seem to think running businesses is dead simple, there are a lot of things to keep track of.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Locke

Small businesses have lots of things they have consider. Dealing with multiple banks, suppliers, employees, there are a lot of considerations.

Some people think that Direct Deposit for payroll is a 'No Brainer' but depending on the size of your business and your payroll thats simply not the case.

Getting it set up, the fees and operating it? Not to mention, remittances have to made to CPP, EI and CRA between different institutions and for those to be made cash-flow is important and thats not even considering basics such as rent, insurance, suppliers, etc you can go on and on.

Sometimes people seem to think running businesses is dead simple, there are a lot of things to keep track of.

Yup.

And when it became possible to deposit cheques by taking a picture with your phone, which is actually something most banks offer, its even easier now to pay / get paid via cheque.

As a business owner, EFTs cost money. Cheques cost nothing. If you have a system in place to deal with cheques, with less than 1% rate of an issue, why not go that route? Oh wait, thousands of businesses in Canada have been going that route. But don't ask CP about that.

[Wormius]

Are there many workers, who get paid by cheque, only receiving them by mail?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Azure

There are a lot of employers that still operate like that.

The fact that CP thinks otherwise just again goes to show how elitist this place has become.

I literally know 5 companies with 100-500 employees that refuse to do any kind of electronic deposit. They mail cheques, and they will not go out of their way to courier the cheque out. That doesn't just include paying their employees, but also paying their suppliers.

My company deals with a lot of landowners who demand monthly payments via cheque. They are mostly old folks who have no interest in filling out the EFT forms to get on electronic payment. Our AP/Land folks push them frequently to get things swapped over but I think they enjoy having a reason to drive into town and socialize with people.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Azure

Good God man, why are you taking sense.

Its 2024. Literally no excuse to not do direct deposit. Especially if you are working with senior citizens who have nobody to help them actually setup direct deposit. Get with the program. I mean just ask belsarius how things are supposed to be done these days!

I love how you see the world in such simple black and white. #### you make it hard to have a honest discussion.

Sure a lot of companies do cheques, but in this situation there are other options available. Not ensuring your employee gets paid is not an option just because of a strike. If there weren't other options then sure you have a point, but you just want to be an ass about everything.

The reality of life is that there are other options. Locke is right and they may not be cost effective or take some work to get going, but employers need to pay employees regardless of a postal strike. You do a couple payrolls via e-transfers and ensure your workers get their money.

And its not like I am just pulling it out of my ass. I just switched jobs from a large company in Edmonton where everything we did was electronic. I hadn't cut a cheque in years. And 4 months ago I moved to a company who does absolutely everything via cheque. The attitude with the strike? Lets make sure we find alternative methods to get our employees and suppliers paid. Took a bunch of extra work and some up front costing, but as it turns out after doing the cost analysis, we are actually going to save money and time by phasing out cheques.

So does it suck for small businesses to have to put in a little extra effort right now? Sure it does, it also sucked to have to put in extra effort over Covid restrictions and getting around people working from home. But it is possible, and telling employees, sorry, pay check is in the mail but you have to go to the food bank because of the postal workers, is about the height of laziness from any employer in 2024.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Azure

There are a lot of employers that still operate like that.

The fact that CP thinks otherwise just again goes to show how elitist this place has become.

Oh boy you’re really starting to lay it on pretty thick here by suggesting that people who are siding with workers fighting to improve and in some ways simply maintain their conditions of employment are somehow elitists while their employer and numerous business organizations lobby the government to give them a get out of jail free card by forcing their employees back to work.

I literally know 5 companies with 100-500 employees that refuse to do any kind of electronic deposit. They mail cheques, and they will not go out of their way to courier the cheque out.

Well they may find themselves in violation of the law if they refuse to make arrangements to pay their people in the event they rely on but cannot use Canada Post. Not sure why a business that would operate in that manner deserves any sympathy.

That doesn't just include paying their employees, but also paying their suppliers.

Originally Posted by Azure

Its not just paying people.

Tons of businesses still pay their suppliers via cheque as well.

So what would these businesses do if Canada Post ceased to exist? I mean does it not seem like a somewhat irresponsible business practice to put all of their eggs into one basket when said basket claims that they are bleeding money and may not be viable in the near future?

Leave the rhetoric to the CFIB, they’re (a little) better at it than you are.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yup.

And when it became possible to deposit cheques by taking a picture with your phone, which is actually something most banks offer, its even easier now to pay / get paid via cheque.

As a business owner, EFTs cost money. Cheques cost nothing. If you have a system in place to deal with cheques, with less than 1% rate of an issue, why not go that route? Oh wait, thousands of businesses in Canada have been going that route. But don't ask CP about that.

Oh I see the issue.. you are financially illiterate.

Cheques cost nothing? Canada post is $0.98 on the Postage meter or $1.15 a stamp. Cheques cost at least $0.50 each, or more if you want them with a logo. Say a cheque costs $1.50 after postage and not including labour hours.

You can get a Telpay account for $20 a month flat fee and have up to 60 paychecks a month for $24 more.

So $50 to electronically do payroll (a couple bucks more for government remittances), plus time saved vs almost $100 in cheques.

But oh yes, in the world of Azure, cheques are free! Life is grand as I don't have any costs!! Math is hard.

[Firebot]

In the least surprising news out of this Liberal-NDP coalition, it's not only expected that the government will miss it's deficit target, it seems to be an incredibly wide miss. Rumour is 50-60 billion deficit?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...rget-ahead-of/

On the bright side rates are continuing to fall down with an expected large cut coming tomorrow, a sure sign of strength in our vibecession economy.

In other political news, the NDP and Jagmeet Singh has voted to keep the coalition going providing their full confidence in this government, rejecting Jagmeet Singh's words in the process.

https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/44/1/913

Motion Text
That,

(i) whereas the Leader of the New Democratic Party said he "ripped up" his supply and confidence agreement with the Liberal government,

(ii) whereas the NDP Leader said, "the Liberals are too weak, too selfish and too beholden to corporate interests to fight for people",

(iii) whereas the NDP Leader said, "the Liberal government will always cave to corporate greed, and always step in to make sure the unions have no power", in response to the Liberal Labour Minister's referrals to the Canadian Industrial Relations Board that ordered the workers of Teamsters Canada Rail Conference and the ILWU 514 to resume their duties, violating their right to strike",

therefore, the House agrees with the NDP Leader, and the House proclaims it has lost confidence in the Prime Minister and the government.

With the Bloc Quebecois voting in favour of the non confidence motion, this makes the NDP solely responsible as the main supporter of this government heading into 2025.


*edited the off target to budget off target deficit total which is what i meant

[iggy_oi]

“Whereas the CPC have yet to ask the NDP on record whether they feel the CPC are more or less beholden to corporate interests than the liberal party and the CPC have instead decided to portray themselves as champions of the working class despite very little evidence to date to support this assertion….”

There goes our boy firebot trying to grandstand on the backs of working class people again. I sure hope his employer doesn’t send him his paycheques by mail.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by belsarius

But oh yes, in the world of Azure, cheques are free! Life is grand as I don't have any costs!! Math is hard.

It's always the champions of business who know very little about actual business. Like a rabid fan who knows everything about running a sports franchise.

[chemgear]

More free money bribes for votes. MOAR!

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/free...ment-1.7140051

Freeland doesn't commit to meeting her own deficit target in fall economic statement

Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland has not committed to meeting the $40.1-billion deficit target she set for the government last year, as the Liberal government appears to unshackle itself from constraints on spending ahead of a federal election.

When asked if she would also meet her deficit target, Freeland wouldn't answer.

Freeland now appears to be ditching at least one of those guardrails, which was to keep the deficit at or below $40.1 billion for the previous fiscal year. The apparent pivot away from reining in the deficit comes as the Liberals look for ways to win back favour with Canadians on affordability.

The parliamentary budget officer projected the deficit would be $46.8 billion for the 2023-24 fiscal year.

"You can't pick and choose fiscal anchors as you go, and renege on a commitment you made only a year ago," said Asselin, who served as a budget director to former finance minister Bill Morneau.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Firebot

In the least surprising news out of this Liberal-NDP coalition, it's not only expected that the government will miss it's deficit target, it seems to be an incredibly wide miss. Rumour is 50-60 billion off target?

Target = 40 billion.
Estimate = 46.8 billion.
46.8 billion - 40 billion = 6.8 billion
6.8 billion != 50-60 billion

Unfollow whatever sources you heard 50-60 billion from as they have proven themselves not credible. Or if you're citing the Globe and Mail as your source, learn to read and do math, please.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by SebC

Target = 40 billion.
Estimate = 46.8 billion.
46.8 billion - 40 billion = 6.8 billion
6.8 billion != 50-60 billion

Unfollow whatever sources you heard 50-60 billion from as they have proven themselves not credible. Or if you're citing the Globe and Mail as your source, learn to read and do math, please.

First when I said the rumour 50 to 60 billion off target, I meant the budget being off target with a 50 to 60 billion deficit projection not 50 to 60 billion above the deficit target. So I will correct that to clarify since it's not what I meant. That should have been an obvious misunderstanding.

But let's look at the numbers that we have right now since you said to do the math. "It's only 6.8 billion more" out of a 46.8 billion deficit, did you seriously rush in after you saw the article just posted to show me wrong ? Did you think I am not aware of that 46.8 billion number in the article I myself posted?

Where do you think the media note about the 46.8 billion deficit projection comes from? It's not a new number.

https://www.pbo-dpb.ca/en/news-relea...s-selon-le-dpb

The PBO outlook includes measures announced by the Government in Budget 2024 and through August 31, 2024. For the previous fiscal year, 2023-24, we estimate the budgetary deficit to be $46.8 billion (1.6% of GDP) and the federal debt-to-GDP ratio to rise to 42.2%.

What's that date again? August 31, 2024 spending measures announced based off previous fiscal year number? what's the fiscal year for the 2024-25 calendar ending? March 31 2025? What date are we today? Surely even you can see this estimate number is not a recent number.

And this figure was before the GST holiday or any of the vote buying measures with a fast weakening Canadian dollar (CAD was around 74 cents / USD at the time) so we know that this estimated projection is way off as well and the whole point.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...nment-spending

So that alone is 21.6 billion in excess spending supplementary to the 2024 billion budget that just got announced yesterday that is to negatively further impact the deficit in the future and not accounted for in the budget or prior estimates.

It's not going to be 46.8 billion deficit, hence the 50 to 60 billion dollar rumour and why I posted the article in the first place, and why Liberals have neem pressed for a fall economic statement on the deficit. And that number of just how badly Liberal-NDP are overspending is being hidden from Canadians.

So if you are going to say learn to read and do the math, you better understand it yourself.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Incoherent drivel

The most frustrating thing about you is that, even when confronted with an obvious mistake (which is ok, by the way, everyone makes mistakes), you triple down and insist that either you're right and everyone else is wrong, or that everyone must have misunderstood what you wrote, or that although it said exactly what everyone understood, you obviously meant it another way, ETC.

Just shut up.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

The most frustrating thing about you is that, even when confronted with an obvious mistake (which is ok, by the way, everyone makes mistakes), you triple down and insist that either you're right and everyone else is wrong, or that everyone must have misunderstood what you wrote, or that although it said exactly what everyone understood, you obviously meant it another way, ETC.

Just shut up.

This is like blaming the kid taking your order at McDonald’s for the food being garbage. He’s just working there doing what he’s told and trying to make a living Monahammer.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

The most frustrating thing about you is that, even when confronted with an obvious mistake (which is ok, by the way, everyone makes mistakes), you triple down and insist that either you're right and everyone else is wrong, or that everyone must have misunderstood what you wrote, or that although it said exactly what everyone understood, you obviously meant it another way, ETC.

Just shut up.

Firebot trying to pretend like his mistakes are part of his 5D chess the rest of us are too intellectually infantile to catch up on.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Oh I see the issue.. you are financially illiterate.

Cheques cost nothing? Canada post is $0.98 on the Postage meter or $1.15 a stamp. Cheques cost at least $0.50 each, or more if you want them with a logo. Say a cheque costs $1.50 after postage and not including labour hours.

You can get a Telpay account for $20 a month flat fee and have up to 60 paychecks a month for $24 more.

So $50 to electronically do payroll (a couple bucks more for government remittances), plus time saved vs almost $100 in cheques.

But oh yes, in the world of Azure, cheques are free! Life is grand as I don't have any costs!! Math is hard.

In the grand scheme of things, cheques cost nothing for a business that is setup to pay via cheque, and has been doing it that way, without interruption, for decades.

But hey, rich coming from someone so clueless about how the real world works that you were completely ignorant to the fact that there are actually a lot of businesses out there that do not pay their bills or their people electronically, and even more ignorant to the struggle of trying to get everything switched over quickly is actually kind of a big issue.

Its '2024 remember.'