Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[CliffFletcher]

Have the fears of automation leading to widespread unemployment been born out in reality? History shows people move to different jobs when their roles are automated. The countries with the highest levels of automation in industry and services (Japan and Korea) have very low unemployment rates.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Have the fears of automation leading to widespread unemployment been born out in reality? History shows people move to different jobs when their roles are automated. The countries with the highest levels of automation in industry and services (Japan and Korea) have very low unemployment rates.

People don’t understand that automation has been around since the industrial revolution. Its not a new thing. There used to be paying jobs as street manure cleaners, telephone connection operator, and elevator operator.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by SebC

The answer is automation and UBI, not luddism. If you block automation you also prevent the pressure buildup that will get us UBI.

Nobody is advocating for luddism or blocking automation. Automation will or won’t happen regardless of whether you support workers, but it seems really foolish to pull support simply because you don’t feel like should have a job at all when they still have one.

[chemgear]

Still no update on the how bad the deficit is? The new vote buying bribe should add another 5 - 10 billion?


https://financialpost.com/news/econo...-guardrail-pbo

Canada’s budgetary watchdog says Justin Trudeau’s government has likely blown past a self-imposed fiscal guardrail, and is warning about the consequences of delaying the release of final spending and revenue numbers.

Yves Giroux, the country’s parliamentary budget officer, expects the federal government ran a deficit of $46.8 billion in 2023-24. That’s deeper than the $40 billion forecast by Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland in the April budget, and would break a key fiscal pledge she’s offered as evidence of her party’s spending discipline.

The government has until the end of the year to provide the numbers, but usually releases them in October, as they did last year. The delay raises questions about whether the numbers are worse than expected, which would add complications for Trudeau as his party struggles to regain traction with the electorate.

In an interview, Giroux said the holdup “goes against fiscal transparency and accountability” and leaves the country’s lawmakers to vote and approve hundreds of billions of dollars in spending and tax measures without knowing the state of the country’s finances.

[Ozy_Flame]

Excellent. I was just thinking how deficits are a Canadian politician problem, not just a Trudeau problem.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/202...pending-canada

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

GGG nailed it. It’s fine not support keeping people in jobs that can be automated… so long as you actually have proper supports in place, which we don’t, so we should support workers in that absence.

I would disagree that we don’t have sufficient supports in place currently to manage displacement from automation. Unemployment isn’t driving poverty

In general single parent families drive a large portion of poverty. Unattached people over families have higher rates of poverty. Neither of these two categories are really driven by automation causing job loss. A UBI is not yet necessary.

Now supporting workers for higher wages to capture a larger share of the money generated absolutely should be supported but supported workers to keep their jobs in the face of automation makes no sense.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

People don’t understand that automation has been around since the industrial revolution. Its not a new thing. There used to be paying jobs as street manure cleaners, telephone connection operator, and elevator operator.

You honestly think people believe automation is a new concept?

[Azure]

If the Canada Post strike were just about wages, it would a simple fix, but some of the demands that the union has are ridiculous.

I agree with paying them more, but at some point delivering the mail, i.e. paychecks so people can feed their families should be an essential service, and they should be forced back to work to deal with that.

There are people out there not getting paid right now because their paycheck is stuck in the mail, but guess what? Their mortgage is due. They need to buy food, pay for prescriptions, etc.

[PepsiFree]

I assume most companies are on direct deposit or their cheques are available or being delivered by alternative carriers. Canada Post also agreed to continue delivering government cheques to people.

Employers who throw up their hands and say “I guess you don’t get paid!” would be the people to blame for people not getting paid, not Canada Post.

Though I understand that doesn’t fit the narrative you were going for.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Azure

If the Canada Post strike were just about wages, it would a simple fix, but some of the demands that the union has are ridiculous.

I agree with paying them more, but at some point delivering the mail, i.e. paychecks so people can feed their families should be an essential service, and they should be forced back to work to deal with that.

There are people out there not getting paid right now because their paycheck is stuck in the mail, but guess what? Their mortgage is due. They need to buy food, pay for prescriptions, etc.

Maybe in 2005 this would be an issue, but paying people today does not require Canada Post.. at all.

EFT payments, e-transfers, couriers, wires, hell printing a new cheque and handing it to the worker are all options on the table. There is absolutely no reason that anyone should be going without a paycheck right now.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Azure

If the Canada Post strike were just about wages, it would a simple fix, but some of the demands that the union has are ridiculous.

Has Canada Post made another offer with higher wages yet?

I agree with paying them more, but at some point delivering the mail, i.e. paychecks so people can feed their families should be an essential service, and they should be forced back to work to deal with that.

There are people out there not getting paid right now because their paycheck is stuck in the mail, but guess what? Their mortgage is due. They need to buy food, pay for prescriptions, etc.

Employers wouldn’t legally be able to use that as an excuse to not pay their employees, try again.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Azure

There are people out there not getting paid right now because their paycheck is stuck in the mail, but guess what? Their mortgage is due. They need to buy food, pay for prescriptions, etc.

Not really, I can't think of 1 person that gets paid at work with a cheque.


What year is it?

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Not really, I can't think of 1 person that gets paid at work with a cheque.


What year is it?

My wife got a physical cheque at her retail job every two weeks. She left that job 18 months ago, but I'm fairly certain her old employer still operates that way.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Azure

If the Canada Post strike were just about wages, it would a simple fix, but some of the demands that the union has are ridiculous.

I agree with paying them more, but at some point delivering the mail, i.e. paychecks so people can feed their families should be an essential service, and they should be forced back to work to deal with that.

There are people out there not getting paid right now because their paycheck is stuck in the mail, but guess what? Their mortgage is due. They need to buy food, pay for prescriptions, etc.

Wasn't one of the offers something like at 24% increase over 4 years, and the union rejected it? This is a corporation with a massive deficit making that offer.

[Wormius]

Worst-case, an employer could just email images of the cheques to employees and they deposit it via their online banking app.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

My wife got a physical cheque at her retail job every two weeks. She left that job 18 months ago, but I'm fairly certain her old employer still operates that way.

Direct Deposit is actually quite an expensive program for small businesses.

Cheques are cheap and simple especially now that they can be deposited by phone.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Slava

Wasn't one of the offers something like at 24% increase over 4 years, and the union rejected it? This is a corporation with a massive deficit making that offer.

The most they’ve (officially) offered was under 12% over 4 years. I think the Union was asking for 24% initially but last I read they had moved off of that at the table, though it didn’t say how far they moved.

Should be noted for context that this corporation hasn’t had any issue paying out bonuses to their managers, nor have they fired the CEO who the deficits have ballooned under.. I’m not going to sit here and say Canada post is running smoothly but there does appear to be a number of questionable decisions they have made operationally. I do understand their position on trying to get more flexibility for weekend work but I think that is going to require concessions on both sides to get done.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

My wife got a physical cheque at her retail job every two weeks. She left that job 18 months ago, but I'm fairly certain her old employer still operates that way.

A lot of businesses operate that way. I think it’s this abundance of businesses that people are claiming only mail out paycheques rather than just handing them to their employees that posters are questioning.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Not really, I can't think of 1 person that gets paid at work with a cheque.


What year is it?

Originally Posted by Locke

Direct Deposit is actually quite an expensive program for small businesses.

Cheques are cheap and simple especially now that they can be deposited by phone.

My wife gets paid by cheque. Works at a small business (she's the only 'employee' so direct deposit is not worth the cost to set up. She writes the cheques and then just has the owner sign them so getting paid generally is not an issue......

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

A lot of businesses operate that way. I think it’s this abundance of businesses that people are claiming only mail out paycheques rather than just handing them to their employees that posters are questioning.

Exactly. I’m sure a lot of small businesses do issue physical cheques. Fantastic! The portion of those paying the expense to also mail them out? Uh, near zero I imagine.

The number that couldn’t simply cancel a cheque they mailed out and get it to their employee literally any other way? Significantly less than above, even.