New poll: Harper - Conservatives headed for third place next election?

[driveway]

Originally Posted by GGG

The problem with every coilition government is it just results in more spending and less taxes.

Can you point to some coalition governments who have followed this pattern, or are you just speculating?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Thor

For me its easy, I cannot in good conscience vote for Harper's conservatives for their policies that have gutted Science in Canada, this is the key to future success for Canada investing and putting more money into research and development.

Yes, that is part of it for me as well. It's downright embarrassing as one of the leading economies in the world.

Does anyone really believe that the Conservatives are capitalist, while the Liberals and NDP are socialist, or is the word "socialist" just being used as hyperbole? All 3 of the parties are capitalist. Two of them just put more emphasis on social policies to catch people who fall through the cracks or have trouble.

[Thor]

Also Harper emulating more and more of the US type conservative stuff has really been a deal breaker for me, plus I think no party should be in power for too long, the longer one party runs the country the more likely corruption, back room deals and shady stuff happens, its all the complacency and lack of accountability that becomes a big problem. I'd argue the Liberals last run was too long, 4 to 8 years of a majority is a max for me.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by driveway

Can you point to some coalition governments who have followed this pattern, or are you just speculating?

The liberal/bloc/ndp coilition threat caused the bailout money to be spent.

The Liberal minority added NDP items to secure their vote on budgets

Israels current government has far more right wing policies in order to maintain their coilition.

Attempting to pass austerity measures in Europe has led to colitions falling apart.

We havent had many in Canada, mostly minority governments buying votes at budget time but I consider that equal to a formal coiliotion government.

[Tinordi]

Remember the long-form census? Brutal.

That's my biggest issue. They have an ideological position by which they think the world "ought" to be like and anything that doesn't subscribe to that is just ignored or actively subverted.

Remember the prison bill?

Not a single researcher in Canada supported that thing as anything more than a huge waste of money that would have zero impact on crime. But no, criminals need to be punished! That's our policy objective!

Remember the Budget 2012?

Putting in hundreds of legislative changes that should have been debated in parliament within a budget to cover up and limit democratic process? Fundamental changes to the navigable waters act, environmental protect, defunding the National RoundTable on Environment and Economy because they were providing advice to the government on the most efficient ways to reduce GHGs.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Thor

Also Harper emulating more and more of the US type conservative stuff has really been a deal breaker for me, plus I think no party should be in power for too long, the longer one party runs the country the more likely corruption, back room deals and shady stuff happens, its all the complacency and lack of accountability that becomes a big problem. I'd argue the Liberals last run was too long, 4 to 8 years of a majority is a max for me.

You mean all the regular occurrence stuff that happened under the Liberals? Adscam and the billions wasted on the gun registry were only the tip of the iceberg as they were totally corrupt stealing hundreds of millions of taxpayer money. We have seen nothing remotely close to this under Harper to indicate they would ever go down that road.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

On what issues are the Liberals closer to the Conservatives than the NDP? I've actually been getting pretty POed at Mulcair moving the NDP towards the centre and past Justin on some issues. The Liberals are talking about decriminalizing while Mulcair has said "that would be a mistake" due to health risks. As I follow the NDP on Facebook, I'm getting more and more disenfranchised with them as they move more towards the centre. The feed is constantly touting more jobs, talking about balancing the budget. The only real lefty things they are holding onto is bull#### stuff like labelling of GMO products!

I'd be interested in knowing what these "big jumps left" would be?

Fair enough. I often find it hard to see where the NDP actually stands anymore since the only thing Mulcair seems capable of doing is to attempt to live off the legacy of Layton's ghost. So it would be more accurate to say that my comments would represent the traditional positions of the parties on the spectrum. Regardless, my overall point remains valid as reducing Canada to a two-party system necessarily eliminates the centre as an option. We would fall into the American mode of left or right without considerations of centre, centre-left, centre-right, etc.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by driveway

I'd love to see a coalition government formed. I don't understand why Canadians reacted so negatively when the idea was first floated. We're a parliamentary democracy, coalition governments are perfectly acceptable under the paradigm.

I get that people don't like the idea of the Bloc, but they were democratically elected, therefore they are just as legitimate a political party as any other.

Many reasons why Canadian's reacted negatively.
1. Naked attempt at a power grab by Dion. He was whoring himself out so he could call himself the PM.
2. Getting in bed with the separatists while trying to claim he wasn't getting in bed with the separatists was akin to cheating on your wife in broad daylight then trying to deny it.
3. The balance of power would have lied with the NDP, a party that Canadians had wildly rejected at that point.
4. The fact that they attempted it mere weeks after an election demonstrated that those three parties were not remotely interested in trying to make government work. (Yes, I am aware of how committees were getting stalled by Conservative party power plays.)

And in the end, it backfired spectacularly. When they got together again for the politically motivated contempt of Parliament charge, Canadians sent a very loud message that their shenanigans were not appreciated by voting in a PC majority. So really, if you hate everything Harper has done under this majority, be sure to thank the likes of Dion, Ignatieff and Layton for making it possible.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You mean all the regular occurrence stuff that happened under the Liberals? Adscam and the billions wasted on the gun registry were only the tip of the iceberg as they were totally corrupt stealing hundreds of millions of taxpayer money. We have seen nothing remotely close to this under Harper to indicate they would ever go down that road.

Oh I agree, they had a long list of corruption, and its why I voted Conservative federally for the first time after their reign. Don't get me wrong I really dislike the choices we have in Canada for political parties, my vote for Liberal is a hesitant one at best, but I cannot give Harper my vote for a number of reasons, #1 is the anti science approach by his government, that is very worrisome.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Many reasons why Canadian's reacted negatively.
1. Naked attempt at a power grab by Dion. He was whoring himself out so he could call himself the PM.
2. Getting in bed with the separatists while trying to claim he wasn't getting in bed with the separatists was akin to cheating on your wife in broad daylight then trying to deny it.
3. The balance of power would have lied with the NDP, a party that Canadians had wildly rejected at that point.
4. The fact that they attempted it mere weeks after an election demonstrated that those three parties were not remotely interested in trying to make government work. (Yes, I am aware of how committees were getting stalled by Conservative party power plays.)

And in the end, it backfired spectacularly. When they got together again for the politically motivated contempt of Parliament charge, Canadians sent a very loud message that their shenanigans were not appreciated by voting in a PC majority. So really, if you hate everything Harper has done under this majority, be sure to thank the likes of Dion, Ignatieff and Layton for making it possible.

Don't forget that both the NDP and Liberals flat out denied a coalition as a possibility during the election.

[burn_this_city]

Conservatives are sure doubling down on the reefer madness. One of the issues they lost my vote on.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/just...moke-1.2736152

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

I'll bite. Libertarian here. You know... fiscally responsible, socially liberal. Should actually sound familiar with many here, yet few claim to be.

Last page, but I think most people's biggest problem with Libertarianism is the "Screw you, got mine" mindset. Libertarianism isn't socially liberal, because Libertarianism doesn't believe in safety nets.

I think the tenet that best describes what you've written is Philosophical Communitarianism (screw you, we got ours), or possibly Classical Liberalism.

[GP_Matt]

Is it possible to be a social libertarian?

I don't want the government making morality laws but I still want to keep Universal Health Care and public schools.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

Is it possible to be a social libertarian?

I don't want the government making morality laws but I still want to keep Universal Health Care and public schools.

Bigger government isn't Libertarian.

At it's heart, Libertarianism is closer to political Anarchy than a functional way to govern.

[GP_Matt]

I am waiting for a party to come out in support of polygamy.
Or, better yet, to come out as indifferent to polygamy.

It is insane that we have a law in Canada making it perfectly acceptable for three adults to live in a house together as long as only two of them share a bed. And a maximum of two can have dower rights.

[PeteMoss]

Those Conservative 'attack' ads on Trudeau have been the best thing to happen to him. They worked against Dion and Ingtiaff but the Trudeau ones have been awful and look desperate.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

Is it possible to be a social libertarian?

I don't want the government making morality laws but I still want to keep Universal Health Care and public schools.

Liberal.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Those Conservative 'attack' ads on Trudeau have been the best thing to happen to him. They worked against Dion and Ingtiaff but the Trudeau ones have been awful and look desperate.

"Look at this guy having FUN at a CHARITY EVENT!"

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Liberal.

Sounds more like the NDP.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Sounds more like the NDP.

The NDPs anti development rhetoric make them a no go for me.