Reto Berra vs. Karri Ramo

[CSharp]

It's really hard to say if any of the goalies in the Flames' system is really any good at the moment. The team is inconsistent and is on a rebuild. They're only good enough to lose most games by one or two goals and get trounced every now and then. So, to depend on a goalie to bail out a set of crappy defensive plays for 3 periods is like wishing for a playoff miracle at best. However, based on watching Ramo and Berra play, the latter definitely is quicker going from his knees to his toes in faster and shows athletic abilities. Ramo looks so slow once he goes down on his butterfly style and all anyone needs to do is get the shot up and it's a goal. Berra gives the Flames a chance to lose by 1 goal, while Ramo will give the poor defensive plays no hope of winning any game at all. Berra is now starting to stand up against shots more rather than going down on his knees 100% of the time, like what Ramo does.

[dammage79]

Pat Steinberg ‏@Fan960Steinberg 58s
Berra starts again for the #Flames tomorrow.

There is no guessing anymore IMO. Berra is their guy. He wins.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Pat Steinberg ‏@Fan960Steinberg 58s
Berra starts again for the #Flames tomorrow.

There is no guessing anymore IMO. Berra is their guy. He wins.

I imagine we will see Ramo on the weekend and it's on him to have a good game or sit until the next back to back games.

[HartAttack]

I'm happy to see one goaltender getting a bulk of the starts in a row. Internally, if the goalie knows he isn't getting yanked after one bad performance, he can relax a bit and play his game.

Not commenting on who's the better goaltender, contract status, etc... But, I like giving Reto a bunch of starts here... Who knows, we may see Ramo get 8 or 9 of the next 10 after tonight. Whatever happens, I don't think it's a clear cut message from the organization as to who our #1 goalie is... Just trying to give each guy a clear chance, instead of a 1 or 2 game audition like we've seen in the past.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by HartAttack

I'm happy to see one goaltender getting a bulk of the starts in a row. Internally, if the goalie knows he isn't getting yanked after one bad performance, he can relax a bit and play his game.

Not commenting on who's the better goaltender, contract status, etc... But, I like giving Reto a bunch of starts here... Who knows, we may see Ramo get 8 or 9 of the next 10 after tonight. Whatever happens, I don't think it's a clear cut message from the organization as to who our #1 goalie is... Just trying to give each guy a clear chance, instead of a 1 or 2 game audition like we've seen in the past.

Sorry but I just can't follow your logic. I agree that a goalie has a chance to relax and play his game when he isn't afraid he'll be yanked every time he makes a mistake. So how can we expect Ramo to find his game?

I also can't understand how playing Berra like he's one of the premier starters in the game is "trying to give each guy a clear chance".

Like a lot of people, I can understand why Berra is being put ahead of Ramo right now but don't think his play merits the number of starts he's getting and don't think it's fair to Ramo who must feel like if he doesn't get a shutout he's not going to get a start for another month.

[Enoch Root]

Ramo played well against the Kings last time so I would imagine that he'll see that game.

[combustiblefuel]

I think Berra's earning it. He's keep the Flames in a lot of games. He had a few games with high shot totals (in the 40's) . He does wander a lot . I think he just need to get use to the smaller ice and the trapizoid . He has mention he's not use to not being able to come out and play the puck.

As for who's better I like both. I think Berra will become more of a Mike Smith. Ramo has shown flashes of maybe like a renne?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

As for who's better I like both. I think Berra will become more of a Mike Smith. Ramo has shown flashes of maybe like a renne?

Gee, those are not very high expectations.

[cowtown75]

As much as I have liked seeing Berra show flashes of brilliance, I also have to feel for Ramo. It's hard to get in the zone and get better when you are not seeing any action. There is enough pressure on him as is to come in and try and fill the shoes of his idol Kipper. He hasn't been given enough starts and everytime he doesn't look lights out, he gets the bench. Berra IMO has been getting better because he is getting the reps- that's a no brainer, but I'm a little put off that Ramo is in the doghouse after only a couple of starts. Let's put this into perspective- goalies are a special breed and need the reps to get in their game and in the zone. Playing once every 10 games isn't doing anyone any good and I think they are mis-managing Ramo right now. When Kipper was getting not as many starts last year due to some bad games and then got benched, his stats and performance suffered greatly. Some goalies need to play a lot. I can't blame Ramo for feeling like he is walking on eggshells right now and it's probably messing him up and he is putting extra undo pressure on himself.

We are in a re-build and we need to see what BOTH goalies have to offer. Paying a guy over 2 million to sit on the bench and not give him the reps is ridiculous to me. It should be a rotation system (every other game) so they both get a decent workload. We need to see what we are paying money for and riding a so-called hot goalie (Berra) in a re-build is stupid to me- riding him for what ? a playoff birth ? so we point out out of a top 5 draft pick again ? Especially when stats and performance wise no one is head and shoulders above the other one. I like what I see from Berra and believe he has some huge upside, but I believe Ramo is getting the shaft. Funny thought, Berra kind of reminds me of Karlsson.

[Stay Golden]

Berra vs Ramo The battle of the new Masks

[codynw]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

So how long will it be before Ortio gets a start with the Flames? I had all but given up on him when he went back to Europe. Great to see him return with a vengeance. I'm happy where he is now, contributing to the Heat's recent success.

I thought he had a strong pre-season. His playing style reminds me of a certain Finnish Flames legend.

I would hope at least not until next season, he's still pretty young. Let him pile up the wins in Abbotsford, then maybe try calling him up next season.

[thymebalm]

We can't see what happens in practice, but nothing from their games played has led me to believe Berra is any better than Ramo. Time will tell but I wish we had more evidence to debate. Hard to get a feel for a goalie after 7 sporadic starts some of which are awesome and some terrible.

[northcrunk]

Ok since Berra is getting the majority of the starts can he at least get a helmet that doesn't say "Abbotsford Heat" on it?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

We can't see what happens in practice, but nothing from their games played has led me to believe Berra is any better than Ramo. Time will tell but I wish we had more evidence to debate. Hard to get a feel for a goalie after 7 sporadic starts some of which are awesome and some terrible.

It's almost as if he's a rookie....

Berra is getting more starts in part because he exudes more confidence than Ramo does. Ramo plays small and never looks comfortable. Berra does the opposite of both those things.

Ramo is probably going to be an average backup in this league. Berra looks like a goalie who might be an average starter.

[OutOfTheCube]

What about Reto Berra vs. An actual bear?

That'd get fans in the seats!

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Gee, those are not very high expectations.

Nope not this year any way. Next year tho one of them best be getting to thier business done right.I still stand by Ice size matters. I've played on both as a goalie in tourney's. I does make a difference. those rebounds you see them kick out now on bigger ice gives you much more time to recover. even those softerr goals they let in from down lower from cheating to a side. those wouldn't go in on bigger ice. Berras one atvantage tho does come fromplaying on bigger ice . His lateral movenen. Bigger ice means him and Ramo are use to players being offto a side open for those one timers and more ice to dangle. If you get what I'm saying? The reality of situation for goaltending (even tho ramo has play on N/A ice before YEARS AGO) is you have two younger goalies with limited small ice experience who haven't seen alot of the worlds best talent in the game.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Itse

Rämö only looks overpaid if you look at it in isolation from his situation in the KHL.

Rämö had the option of staying in the KHL and getting paid good money there. That drove up his price. The Flames had the option of not having him over or paying him good money themselves. Our management decided it was worth the shot, and we could afford it.

As long as the KHL is around, we're going to see more situations like this. Effectively, NHL teams have lost some of their negotiating power.

Ramo's cap hit is $2.75M. The only "backups" that get paid this type of money are young goaltenders with #1 potential that have put up good numbers in the NHL but haven't fully established themselves as #1 goalies. Ramo left North America as an AHL caliber goaltender and is no more proven than other "best in Europe" goaltenders as far as NHL teams are concerned. If you are unproven and you want to play in the NHL you will have to accept less. In comparison, Fasth got a 1 year $1M contract to start.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with your point that the NHL has lost some of their negotiating power. The reality is that with a salary cap and the KHL, most NHL teams can't afford to compete for some players. Take Ramo for example, he's an established star #1 goalie in the KHL, but to NHL teams, there's a risk that his game won't translate to the NHL. The risk of ruin is too great and that's why you don't see NHL teams outbidding the KHL or other leagues for unproven players and I'm not sure that's going to change for the foreseeable future.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Exactly.

Another example is Babchuk - part of the reason he got $2.5m IMO is that if it were much less, he would have just gone home (I know, as it turns out, that wouldn't have been a bad thing)

But Babchuk also happened to put up 8 goals and 27 points prior to that contract and put up 16g and 35pts in his previous NHL season. Hardly a good comparison to Ramo's situation.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Freaking out about Ramo's salary is pointless. Now, if we were a cap team and had finite resources to add the final pieces, then we could discuss whether he was a good choice, but that's a different argument and not relevant to this team

No one is freaking out about Ramo's salary, but a bad move is a bad move. Have some of us developed the Oiler fan loser mentality where every move by a GM in a rebuilding year is okay as long as he doesn't trade away any draft picks and young prospects?

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Exactly.

Another example is Babchuk - part of the reason he got $2.5m IMO is that if it were much less, he would have just gone home (I know, as it turns out, that wouldn't have been a bad thing)

The point is that the KHL provides somewhat of a salary floor for these players.

Freaking out about Ramo's salary is pointless. Now, if we were a cap team and had finite resources to add the final pieces, then we could discuss whether he was a good choice, but that's a different argument and not relevant to this team

Actually internet fans don't care nearly enough about the value of a dollar.

"Lets claim Klesla on waivers and give our backup 5.5 million!"

I'd much rather the Flames be a cap floor team and spend those resources on player development. What is wrong with wanting the team to make smart moves?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by neo45

Actually internet fans don't care nearly enough about the value of a dollar.

"Lets claim Klesla on waivers and give our backup 5.5 million!"

I'd much rather the Flames be a cap floor team and spend those resources on player development. What is wrong with wanting the team to make smart moves?

$5.5m is a bit different than $2.75m

Everybody wants to see the team make smart moves - the point was that $2.75m isn't a horrible move like a couple fans are trying to paint it as.

$2.75m is just about exactly the average salary in the NHL. It's not like he was signed to big dollars for big term.

There's "I'd rather see him paid a little less" and then there's "wtf? that's way too much"

This is far, far closer to the former than the latter.

[neo45]

He is signed for another year, that is where I got 5.5 from. 2.6 this year 2.9 next year

Looking like a very questionable move