Reto Berra vs. Karri Ramo

[Stay Golden]

Considering the huge amount of SOG against Berra faces i have little complaints. 1st year in the NHL and he is getting better game by game.
It is not like he has one of the top D's in the league in front of him.
I am surprised at how many starts Hartley has gotten over Ramo, but i do not have the same faith in Ramo either. That is just how i feel about Ramo.
Maybe Hartley just feels more comfortable with Berra in the net too.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think it is the case with both Ramo and Berra that we were going to try and make them into NHL goaltenders over the course of the next couple of seasons. I don't think anyone other than a few naïve fans thought that either one was going to automatically be starter caliber.

It's still too early to judge either, but if Ramo can improve on his rebounds, I like his chances more.

[Robo]

I like berra the thing i find weird/funny though is i see him trip over nothing like once a game

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Itse

Rämö put up .931 both against Washington in Calgary and against LA. The LA performance especially was very good.

While I agree that Berra seems to have more potential due to his size and athleticism, Rämö is somewhat more calm between the pipes. Some goalies just never can handle the pressure of being an NHL starter, especially for a Canadian team. There's no guarantee Berra ever will.

So just for comparison, here are the game by game save percentages for both goalies so far without looking at the opponent or any other situational factors:

Ramo
.897
.857
.931
.853
.931
.857
.885
.800

Total Sv% to date=.882

Berra
.955
.792
.889
.914
.765
.870
.915
.889
.885

Total Sv% to date=.889

With Ramo you get more consistency, but the consistency isn't that good and that of a backup rather than a starter (and even then not a very good backup).

With Berra you get some extreme highs and lows, but he is definitely still adjusting to the North American game of high traffic and shots from everywhere, so IMO he has some more coachable flaws than Ramo. I think you will see him improve on that at some point this year. He's very tall so he will learn to look around the traffic and track the puck better.

Neither has great rebound control, but what I've seen from Berra is his struggle with rebounds when he can't see the first shot very well through traffic. Once he learns how to see around the traffic he will get better with his rebounds.

I would still like to see Ramo more to determine whether he can play better than what he's shown so far, but IMO Berra is the better all-around goaltender and really looks like he cares when he makes a mistake and tries to learn from it. Ramo is very aloof and doesn't seem to have a lot of drive to get better. That's fine when you're already Kipper, but when you're not…ugh.

Ramo's stats have been more consistent, but Berra's have been up and down drastically with a trend to the average between the highs and lows. For my money, I think you will see Ramo end up about .895 Sv% for the year and Berra will be between .905 and .910 if both continue in the 1A/1B scenario. I'm satisfied with a .910 Sv% for a starter on a defensively poor team.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I don't think any of our goalies have been very good this year, but IMO Berra has shown the most promise.

I had high hopes for Ramo, but he is just plain scary to me. Maybe he'll improve as the season continues.



Anyways, don't look now folks but Ortio just put up his 1st AHL shut out tonight, and is now 9-0-0 with the Heat this season.

2.20 GAA and a 0.930 save %

I honestly thought the guy was not going to turn out. I figured he would stink in North America. Those thoughts are based on nothing other than he seems to have been in the organization for a while but never garnered huge attention wherever he played.

Now he is putting up those numbers in the AHL and I'm getting excited to see what he can do for the Flames in the future. Maybe he won't turn out to be much in the NHL, but it is encouraging to see the success he is having in Abbostford.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

So just for comparison, here are the game by game save percentages for both goalies so far without looking at the opponent or any other situational factors:

Ramo
.897
.857
.931
.853
.931
.857
.885
.800

Total Sv% to date=.882

Berra
.955
.792
.889
.914
.765
.870
.915
.889
.885

Total Sv% to date=.889

With Ramo you get more consistency, but the consistency isn't that good and that of a backup rather than a starter (and even then not a very good backup).

With Berra you get some extreme highs and lows, but he is definitely still adjusting to the North American game of high traffic and shots from everywhere, so IMO he has some more coachable flaws than Ramo. I think you will see him improve on that at some point this year. He's very tall so he will learn to look around the traffic and track the puck better.

Neither has great rebound control, but what I've seen from Berra is his struggle with rebounds when he can't see the first shot very well through traffic. Once he learns how to see around the traffic he will get better with his rebounds.

I would still like to see Ramo more to determine whether he can play better than what he's shown so far, but IMO Berra is the better all-around goaltender and really looks like he cares when he makes a mistake and tries to learn from it. Ramo is very aloof and doesn't seem to have a lot of drive to get better. That's fine when you're already Kipper, but when you're not…ugh.

Ramo's stats have been more consistent, but Berra's have been up and down drastically with a trend to the average between the highs and lows. For my money, I think you will see Ramo end up about .895 Sv% for the year and Berra will be between .905 and .910 if both continue in the 1A/1B scenario. I'm satisfied with a .910 Sv% for a starter on a defensively poor team.

Based on that trend, Berra's next game should be very good or at least a high Sv%.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Ramo is very aloof and doesn't seem to have a lot of drive to get better. That's fine when you're already Kipper, but when you're not…ugh.

Kipper actually also had a lot of drive to get better, even after he was already The Kipper. He just looked aloof.

It's probably the same with Rämö.

[The Ditch]

Our goaltenders are a joke, we were so spoiled with Kipper now we got guys who are at the very bottom of the league in save percentage and GAA. They aren't NHL calibre goaltenders.

Not that it matters this year but man, some of you are looking at it through very rosy glasses. These two won't be in the NHL in a couple of years after Calgary gets some real goaltending.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

Our goaltenders are a joke, we were so spoiled with Kipper now we got guys who are at the very bottom of the league in save percentage and GAA. They aren't NHL calibre goaltenders.

Not that it matters this year but man, some of you are looking at it through very rosy glasses. These two won't be in the NHL in a couple of years after Calgary gets some real goaltending.

Easy there Champ...I think we need a little bigger sample size of Berra who has play only 9 games and Ramo at 8 games. I think Berra shows that he can compete but will need more games under his belt in the NHL. Lets wait a while before we start to panic.

[Soliak]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

Our goaltenders are a joke, we were so spoiled with Kipper now we got guys who are at the very bottom of the league in save percentage and GAA. They aren't NHL calibre goaltenders.

Not that it matters this year but man, some of you are looking at it through very rosy glasses. These two won't be in the NHL in a couple of years after Calgary gets some real goaltending.

Kipper had a .882 save % w/ 3.44 GAA last season. Our defense sucks. You are not going to see even a top tier goalie put up insanely good numbers infront of our defense. Atleast IMO.

[dammage79]

And even then, there is still no reason to panic until the team is pushing for a playoff spot.
Which in some opinions could be anywhere from 2-6 years. These goalies have a couple of seasons to get it together. Although with Ortio being so strong down in Abby, and Gillies slowly becoming the second coming of our lord and saviour, two seasons is likely all one of Berra or Ramo get, with the other being shuffled off at the end of this year.

I for one won't be panicking for a couple years yet. The feel out process for these tenders has just begun.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Soliak

Kipper had a .882 save % w/ 3.44 GAA last season. Our defense sucks. You are not going to see even a top tier goalie put up insanely good numbers infront of our defense. Atleast IMO.

People seem to forget how bad Kipper was last season. That Kipper would not have helped the Flames this season.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Itse

Kipper actually also had a lot of drive to get better, even after he was already The Kipper. He just looked aloof.

It's probably the same with Rämö.

I think this is an issue people sometimes have when judging goaltenders. I've always heard the same thing about Kiprusoff: he had an extremely competitive streak as a goaltender.

The two above don't play a fire and brimstone type of style like Thomas, and might not always show it while playing ala Karlsson or Berra, but both (especially Kiprusoff) seem like competitive goaltenders. Ramo certainly tries on some of those scrambles. Whether or not his talents will catch up to the NHL speed and level of traffic (something he was fighting before seemingly permanently benched) is another question.

To be honest though, I can't imagine many people without a pretty strong drive are willing to take a job where, as Plante put it, 18,000 people boo every time you make a mistake.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Fair enough everyone. Maybe I'm reading Ramo wrong, and goalies are definitely a strange breed, but I want the goalie to show a little passion once in a while, especially when he let's in a stinker. Every time Berra has done so, he responds by really trying harder to shut down the opposition and let his team get back in it. I don't see the same thing from Ramo, that's all.

[FlameZilla]

So how long will it be before Ortio gets a start with the Flames? I had all but given up on him when he went back to Europe. Great to see him return with a vengeance. I'm happy where he is now, contributing to the Heat's recent success.

I thought he had a strong pre-season. His playing style reminds me of a certain Finnish Flames legend.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Fair enough everyone. Maybe I'm reading Ramo wrong, and goalies are definitely a strange breed, but I want the goalie to show a little passion once in a while, especially when he let's in a stinker. Every time Berra has done so, he responds by really trying harder to shut down the opposition and let his team get back in it. I don't see the same thing from Ramo, that's all.

You can't "read" his level of competitiveness or desire to be better based on your imagination. Stop trying.

Ortio is just 22 by the way. It's weird that some people gave up on him already two years ago.

[Enoch Root]

One thing that I find interesting is how fans seem to think that goalies should walk in and immediately be at their peak performance.

Goalies are just like every other type of player - they have to learn how to play at the NHL level and they have to continue to develop their game.

Let's give them more than 10 games each before we judge them as players.

[The Ditch]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

One thing that I find interesting is how fans seem to think that goalies should walk in and immediately be at their peak performance.

Goalies are just like every other type of player - they have to learn how to play at the NHL level and they have to continue to develop their game.

Let's give them more than 10 games each before we judge them as players.

Between the Lightning and the AHL Ramo had started 125 games in the "nhl style" why does he get a pass?

As for Berra, he's a goalie who has played in many situations his whole life and has been playing against men for years.

These goalies also have been at practise with the team it's not like they just step out on the ice for a game and that's it, the coaches work with them all the time and they have experience they didn't strap the pads on some random kid and throw him out there.

But you know, best goalies not playing in the NHL.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

Between the Lightning and the AHL Ramo had started 125 games in the "nhl style" why does he get a pass?

As for Berra, he's a goalie who has played in many situations his whole life and has been playing against men for years.

These goalies also have been at practise with the team it's not like they just step out on the ice for a game and that's it, the coaches work with them all the time and they have experience they didn't strap the pads on some random kid and throw him out there.

But you know, best goalies not playing in the NHL.

As for Ramo and his past experience, he wasn't ready. You can hold that against him if you like - for me, it's irrelevant.

As for them playing in other leagues, that is no different than a defenseman playing in the A - you still have to learn how to play in the NHL.

[stone hands]

its only early in their tenures as flames, but first impressions are that berra is "better" than ramo, but he makes stupendously head scratching mistakes quite often so its hard to get a good read. definitely would like to see some more ramo but I feel more confident with berra in net, at least in the early stages