Reto Berra vs. Karri Ramo

[neo45]

Berra has been better, but not 9/10 starts better


Get Ramo in there for half the games. Pretty pointless for the Flames to have the most expensive backup in the league at this point of the rebuild

Originally Posted by fotiou22

Has anyone been watching Ortio play in Abbotsford? How would you describe his game?

He plays a lot like Kipper. I think he emulates his style

[kirant]

Originally Posted by neo45

Get Ramo in there for half the games. Pretty pointless for the Flames to have the most expensive backup in the league at this point of the rebuild

Brodeur makes 4.5 million

Agreed though that Ramo probably needs a few starts. The biggest flaw in his gamed seemed to be the fact that he wasn't adjusted to NHL shot velocities and traffic. Whether or not that improves needs to be tested a little more than relief duties after that stinker against Toronto.

Originally Posted by neo45

He plays a lot like Kipper. I think he emulates his style

I think he listed his idol as Kiprusoff. It would not shock me if he tries to play like him in that sense.

[Matty81]

I am really surprised at the faith Berra has been getting from Hartley... He was terrible in the collapse against the oilers and has been average at best. I like his upside too but the meritocracy he's preachng everywhere else is kind of suspect between the pipes.

I don't think you can judge Ramo on a few spot starts, I'd like to see him get the same opportunity as Ramo and get a consistent run of games. If he plays 5 or 6 in a row and doesn't run with it, time to give Ortio a look.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And oddly enough, this is precisely why I think Berra has way more potential than Ramo.

Yes, they have been about equally bad.

However, when I watch Berra play, I see a goalie that could be really good.

His size and his lateral movement are fantastic. His abilities on shoot-outs are plainly evident.

Where he gets into trouble is with over-committing, and with some bad rebounds.

In other words, he has the tools, he just needs more coaching. His problems are correctable.

I think Berra can be a good NHL goalie (or at least decent). I don't have the same confidence with Ramo.

If I were the GM. I would be running Berra here, and Ortio down in Abby, just like they are doing (and waiting for Gillies), though the occasional start for Ramo wouldn't hurt either.

So

you

agree

with

the

handling

of

the

goalies

so

far

?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

So

you

agree

with

the

handling

of

the

goalies

so

far

?

You have a problem with spaces between points? Would you rather see a wall of text? And is that all you have to worry about? Might I suggest you find a hobby or something?

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I am really surprised at the faith Berra has been getting from Hartley... He was terrible in the collapse against the oilers and has been average at best. I like his upside too but the meritocracy he's preachng everywhere else is kind of suspect between the pipes.

I don't think you can judge Ramo on a few spot starts, I'd like to see him get the same opportunity as Ramo and get a consistent run of games. If he plays 5 or 6 in a row and doesn't run with it, time to give Ortio a look.

Except Ramo has only played 1 less game than Berra, has a worse GAA as well as a worse SV%.

If meritocracy is the sole thing you're concerned about, then Berra is the better goalie who has merited more starts.

Ramo also started games when the Flames were outplaying their opponents near the beginning of the year and still has poor statistics to show for it.

During that same period, Ramo was worse in every category than Joey Mac, and yet nobody wanted Joey Mac starting games. All 3 guys have been given an equal chance, and Berra is (albeit by a small margin) the best.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You have a problem with spaces between points? Would you rather see a wall of text? And is that all you have to worry about? Might I suggest you find a hobby or something?

It was just meant in good fun, sorry it didn't come across that way,

[Erick Estrada]

We all know Hartley plays favourites with some guys and personally I feel Berra has been better but not to the point where he should be getting every start because he's still good for a bad play or two every game. Ramo probably won't get back in until the LA game saturday night that is the 2nd of a back to back.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by strombad

Except Ramo has only played 1 less game than Berra, has a worse GAA as well as a worse SV%.

If meritocracy is the sole thing you're concerned about, then Berra is the better goalie who has merited more starts.

Ramo also started games when the Flames were outplaying their opponents near the beginning of the year and still has poor statistics to show for it.

During that same period, Ramo was worse in every category than Joey Mac, and yet nobody wanted Joey Mac starting games. All 3 guys have been given an equal chance, and Berra is (albeit by a small margin) the best.

I'd say marginally better, save percentage is almost identical - to me it's more of an individual assessment and GAA is a team stat. The concern I have with Ramo's numbers is that it's seemed like his starts are really far apart, The longest stretch I remember him getting the net was 3 games in a row in October... not as much of a chance to get in a groove.

But that said, I'm no big Ramo backer based on his play either, he's been not great either. Bottom line, a sub 900 SV% is not good enough to keep a starting job in the NHL today..

[Henry Fool]

By NHL starting goalie standards both goalies have sucked so far. No way around that fact. I don't know how many people actually expected much more at this point. They went into the season with two brand new Euro signings.

The team has more faith that Berra will develop into something better. However it would be better to share the load for both goalies' sake.

What I'd like to see is one of them being able to get the team some regulation wins without letting in easy goals towards the end of the game. Because that's what starters do. You have to be your best in the final period, not the other way around. No hope of winning many games if you can't do that.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

By NHL starting goalie standards both goalies have sucked so far. No way around that fact. I don't know how many people actually expected much more at this point. They went into the season with two brand new Euro signings.

Exactly. Feaster should be lynched for giving Ramo a two year contract with a $2.75M cap hit. Like WTF. But this is considered the first year of the rebuild, the Flames aren't a cap team, and a lot of fans are letting it pass.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by FAN

Exactly. Feaster should be lynched for giving Ramo a two year contract with a $2.75M cap hit. Like WTF. But this is considered the first year of the rebuild, the Flames aren't a cap team, and a lot of fans are letting it pass.

Why? How else do you obtain highly touted international players? By not paying them?

Ramo makes the 24th highest salary in the league (goaltenders of course) and a few of the guys with close to the same statistics (Nabokov, Lindback, Fasth) are also paid around the same bracket.

He is maybe overpaid by a pinch, but that's pretty much chump change for a guy who is supposed to be an NHL starter. He isn't, but that isn't Feaster's fault.

It's 2 years. Low risk, high reward. Let's at least lynch Feaster for something vaguely sinister.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by FAN

Exactly. Feaster should be lynched for giving Ramo a two year contract with a $2.75M cap hit. Like WTF. But this is considered the first year of the rebuild, the Flames aren't a cap team, and a lot of fans are letting it pass.

Fans are aware that the cap isn't an issue for the Flames. Also he's started like half a dozen games so it might be early for a lynch mob. It's not Feaster's fault that the coaching staff have no faith in him.

A betting man would bet against either of the goalies becoming decent starters, but I haven't given up on them. They're like prospects with a few months left to show significant progress.

They should be more open minded about Rämö who really isn't getting enough ice time to prove the coaches wrong. It feels like they're playing Berra until he finally proves the coaches right.

Unless they've completely given up on Rämö, which strikes me as hard to believe, it would be better to keep them both playing.

[Itse]

Rämö only looks overpaid if you look at it in isolation from his situation in the KHL.

Rämö had the option of staying in the KHL and getting paid good money there. That drove up his price. The Flames had the option of not having him over or paying him good money themselves. Our management decided it was worth the shot, and we could afford it.

As long as the KHL is around, we're going to see more situations like this. Effectively, NHL teams have lost some of their negotiating power.

[Euro Flame]

Don't look just at goalies,defence is horrible.

Wideman 12 pt and -7
Brodie 7 pt and -8
Butler 4 pt and -12

Smid is -1 with Flames in 6 games

the team is lacking help from forwards too while defending


the goalies are just fine with that lineup in front of them


my 2ct

[Stanley]

The difference, for me anyway, is when an opponent fires a shot on Berra I'm fairly confident he'll make the save and for the most part control the rebound and cover it up for a face off, and if its going for his glove 9/10 he can actually catch it.

With Ramo, when an opponent fires a shot on him I have no idea wtf is going to happen...

However that being said, I wouldn't mind seeing Ramo back in net here soon...

[FlameZilla]

Berra gets the advantage for me because he covers so much of the net with his big body. He's had a couple of really good performances and a few sketchy ones. As far as I can tell he's the only goalie who has posted a performance with a save percentage north of .900 this season and he's saved 40+ shots on a few occasions. Ramo hasn't shown nearly as much potential.

Ramo deserves some starts, but Berra gives us the best shot at winning. Ramo looks like a serviceable back-up but I think Berra could be an average-to-poor NHL starter. I have no problem with how the goalie situation is being handled. All that being said, I hope Gillies lives up to his potential in the next couple of years.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Itse

Rämö only looks overpaid if you look at it in isolation from his situation in the KHL.

Rämö had the option of staying in the KHL and getting paid good money there. That drove up his price. The Flames had the option of not having him over or paying him good money themselves. Our management decided it was worth the shot, and we could afford it.

As long as the KHL is around, we're going to see more situations like this. Effectively, NHL teams have lost some of their negotiating power.

Exactly.

Another example is Babchuk - part of the reason he got $2.5m IMO is that if it were much less, he would have just gone home (I know, as it turns out, that wouldn't have been a bad thing)

The point is that the KHL provides somewhat of a salary floor for these players.

Freaking out about Ramo's salary is pointless. Now, if we were a cap team and had finite resources to add the final pieces, then we could discuss whether he was a good choice, but that's a different argument and not relevant to this team

[Itse]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Berra gets the advantage for me because he covers so much of the net with his big body. He's had a couple of really good performances and a few sketchy ones. As far as I can tell he's the only goalie who has posted a performance with a save percentage north of .900 this season and he's saved 40+ shots on a few occasions. Ramo hasn't shown nearly as much potential.

Rämö put up .931 both against Washington in Calgary and against LA. The LA performance especially was very good.

While I agree that Berra seems to have more potential due to his size and athleticism, Rämö is somewhat more calm between the pipes. Some goalies just never can handle the pressure of being an NHL starter, especially for a Canadian team. There's no guarantee Berra ever will.

Rämö's major issue is his rebound control, which is horrid by NHL standards and even worse than Berras. If he can get that under control, I think he could be a solid journeyman type / backup goalie.

[Enoch Root]

Bottom line is that it is a rebuild year - let them both play so we can see what they've got and whether or not they are improving throughout the year.

Decisions can be made in the off-season.