General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

You'd be shocked how many Canadian Coyotes fans are absolutely embarrassed by the behavior of their fellow Canadian hockey fans/media through all of this. As am I.

How so?

The City of Glendale looks like a bunch of fools in this, perhaps you should focus more on them. If Canadians are laughing, simply look no further than your own backyard for your reason.

[troutman]

Lisa Halverstadt ‏@LisaHalverstadt
Goldwater Institute suit was filed this morning on behalf of two #Glendale residents. Stay tuned for story with more details. #Coyotes

Lisa Halverstadt ‏@LisaHalverstadt
.@GoldwaterInst suing #Glendale over failure to release #Coyotes deal exhibits, conduct competitive bid for arena operations.

[dissentowner]

Go GWI Go!!!!!

[valo403]

Originally Posted by troutman

Do you seriously doubt this?

Why wouldn't I? There are tons of non-Canadian snowbirds in the Phoenix area. Perhaps you have anecdotal evidence that Canadians make up a large percentage of the fan base, I don't know, which is why I asked if there was a basis.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Notorious Honey Badger

Valo what is your reasoning for always defending the Coyotes in Phoenix? Are you from the area? Visit? What makes you think the NHL should be there?

I don't really care where the NHL puts teams, and I definitely don't think the NHL should be in any market. What I defend is the fact that the NHL and all other related parties are making business decisions, not the garbage that tends to get thrown out there by a certain element. This is professional sports, it's not a public service. Nobody deserves a team, teams go where people want to own them. Period.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

You'd be shocked how many Canadian Coyotes fans are absolutely embarrassed by the behavior of their fellow Canadian hockey fans/media through all of this. As am I.

Yeah, reporting facts on the situation must be embarassing.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Yeah, reporting facts on the situation must be embarassing.

There have been numerous Canadian writers who have gone well beyond reporting 'facts'

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Yeah, reporting facts on the situation must be embarassing.

If you want to call it that.

Dissentowner's post about four above yours is a good example of the attitude of some Canadians. And his is nothing compared to the vitriol from some quarters, notably Winnipeg prior to their landing the Thrashers.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Yeah, reporting facts on the situation must be embarassing.

Great facts seen below:

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Go GWI Go!!!!!

Notably coming out of Winnipeg too..

[troutman]

There has been bad behavior all around. A Coyotes fan just wished that GWI people get aids.

Rhyan Brandt ‏@RhyanwitanH
if the @GoldwaterInst were to all catch aids at the current moment... i wouldnt be the least bit sad... go #coyotes

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

What exactly are you embarrassed about?

The Phoenix Coyotes are serious business.

[troutman]

Goldwater Institute files lawsuit in Glendale's Phoenix Coyotes deal

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...r-lawsuit.html

The Phoenix-based conservative watchdog group filed a complaint in Maricopa County Superior Court early Wednesday on behalf of two Glendale residents.

The institute puts forth two arguments. They argue the city should have allowed other potential arena operators to bid for the job. They also say there was not enough council support to allow the lease with likely Coyotes buyer Greg Jamison to immediately go into effect as an emergency measure.

In a separate filing on Wednesday, Goldwater argues that Glendale be held in contempt of court for its failure to release two exhibits to the 20-year lease and non-relocation agreements with Jamison before the council vote.

The Wednesday court filing notes the Glendale City Charter requires five of seven council members to approve emergency measures. The council had four of six members approve the Jamison deal, with one council member absent.

When it comes to bidding, Goldwater argues that the city charter states that procurement of any services that cost more than $50,000 requires a written request for proposal or an invitation for at least a handful of businesses to place bids.

The charter does offer some exceptions, including at the city manager's discretion when a bid process is unlikely to reduce the cost of a service and to avoid delays or unnecessary expenses.

http://goldwaterinstitute.org/articl...otiations-case

• Motion for Contempt (6/13/2012)
• Motion for Contempt Exhibits (6/13/2012)
• Complaint (6/13/2012)
• Transcript from the June 8 Hearing (6/8/12)

This is interesting - #24 from the complaint - this could be GWI's end-game (a petition for a referendum. I think it highly unlikely the deal would survive a referendum):


24. The Taxpayers are unable to begin gathering signatures for a petition to refer the
ordinance to the ballot unless the emergency clause is declared invalid.

[Muta]

I think alot of Canadian sentiment in this saga comes from the fact that Phoenix is getting every single chance possible, over and over and over to keep the team there. In 1995 Quebec City probably didn't get nearly the opportunities and passes Phoenix has received.

Now that the tables have turned and money is obviously easier to come by north of the border, people want to see that franchise move to a place where support will be in abundance - and if that happens to be in Canada, well then, to bad so sad Phoenix. If you don't like hockey, we'll gladly take it back here.

It is important to remember though, that Quebec at this point does not have an NHL arena good to go for September. I, for one, want the Coyote saga ended and the team moved to Quebec City immediately, but until the current arena is renovated or the new arena is built, Quebec will be a pipe dream - atleast for next season.

My money is on the Coyotes moving and ready in Quebec for the 2013-14 season, or the one after that.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

I don't really care where the NHL puts teams, and I definitely don't think the NHL should be in any market. What I defend is the fact that the NHL and all other related parties are making business decisions, not the garbage that tends to get thrown out there by a certain element. This is professional sports, it's not a public service. Nobody deserves a team, teams go where people want to own them. Period.

The COG is making a business decision?
LOL

[valo403]

Originally Posted by troutman

Goldwater Institute files lawsuit in Glendale's Phoenix Coyotes deal

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...r-lawsuit.html

The Phoenix-based conservative watchdog group filed a complaint in Maricopa County Superior Court early Wednesday on behalf of two Glendale residents.

The institute puts forth two arguments. They argue the city should have allowed other potential arena operators to bid for the job. They also say there was not enough council support to allow the lease with likely Coyotes buyer Greg Jamison to immediately go into effect as an emergency measure.

In a separate filing on Wednesday, Goldwater argues that Glendale be held in contempt of court for its failure to release two exhibits to the 20-year lease and non-relocation agreements with Jamison before the council vote.

The Wednesday court filing notes the Glendale City Charter requires five of seven council members to approve emergency measures. The council had four of six members approve the Jamison deal, with one council member absent.

When it comes to bidding, Goldwater argues that the city charter states that procurement of any services that cost more than $50,000 requires a written request for proposal or an invitation for at least a handful of businesses to place bids.

The charter does offer some exceptions, including at the city manager's discretion when a bid process is unlikely to reduce the cost of a service and to avoid delays or unnecessary expenses.

http://goldwaterinstitute.org/articl...otiations-case

• Motion for Contempt (6/13/2012)
• Motion for Contempt Exhibits (6/13/2012)
• Complaint (6/13/2012)
• Transcript from the June 8 Hearing (6/8/12)

It really is shocking how many basic procedural blunders the CoG has made in the last week or so. Just basic stuff. They had to know GWI would pounce on these little things, and yet they left the door open for them to do so.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The COG is making a business decision?
LOL

Ummm what would you call it?

They have a building that they are paying for regardless of whether or not the Coyotes play there. They have a study that says they'll be better off with the Coyotes playing there. They also feel that losing the Coyotes would do damage to the related development complex.

Feel free to disagree with the intelligence of their position, but how you classify it as anything other than a business decision is beyond me.

[Komskies]

Why is the NHL hanging on to Phoenix so dearly, when they didn't seem to fight for Atlanta at all?

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

If you want to call it that.

Dissentowner's post about four above yours is a good example of the attitude of some Canadians. And his is nothing compared to the vitriol from some quarters, notably Winnipeg prior to their landing the Thrashers.

Here's the reality, Winnipeg had people (Chipman) who wanted to buy the team, Atlanta didn't. Doesn't matter at all about the fans, although low attendance hurts overall. Not much to gloat over, and I highly doubt many people in Atlanta miss them.

Phoenix has just been the most amazing story ever, I would love an ESPN show on the numerous owners who suddenly fade away as soon as the NHL secures its' 25 million (Ice Edge, Reisendorf, etc..), COG meetings, amazing tire pumping of Bettman, GWI and not to forget Mayor Scruggs.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Komskies

Why is the NHL hanging on to Phoenix so dearly, when they didn't seem to fight for Atlanta at all?

a) Apparently interested owners v. no interest at all
b) A city that is willing to cover losses

and

c) No immediately available relocation destinations (this one is a bit less certain as Quebec seems to be kind of sort of but not really ready)

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Ummm what would you call it?

They have a building that they are paying for regardless of whether or not the Coyotes play there. They have a study that says they'll be better off with the Coyotes playing there. They also feel that losing the Coyotes would do damage to the related development complex.

Feel free to disagree with the intelligence of their position, but how you classify it as anything other than a business decision is beyond me.

Lets see, they've been offered $6-10M/yr by a firm to manage the arena instead they've chosen to pay $14M/yr, which they don't have and to raise the taxes in order to try keep the Coyotes. I say try because Jamison hasn't exactly proven his financial stability. In a boondoggle of these proportions it's better to cut your loses while you still can.

Every body knows what is happening here, Bettman is playing the COG because enough of the council are fans and can't think straight.

From Jamison's end, he's trying to get investers to buy a team that has lost money every year they've been in Phoenix. Not only losing money but a lot more money than the $14M/yr that the COG will pay as a subsidy. Adding more to the situation is that it's reported that if the new owners want to move, they'll have to pay a huge buyout ($200- 300M?) from their lease agreement. If Jamison can't make it work what will the NHL do with a franchise they can't practically move? This is a bad deal for the NHL and the NHLPA, so if Bettman isn't an idiot he is showing he is a slime ball as he plays the COG.