[News] Feaster and Weisbrod relieved of duties. Burke will hire a new GM

[SuperMatt18]

The Hawks have grit though, and they tend to bring that out more in the playoffs.

Bolland, Bolig, Bickell, Seabrooke, Hjalmarrson, Shaw, Smith, Kruger all play a gritty game.

And their skill guys (outside of Kane) aren't really soft either.

Toews, Hossa, Sharp, and Keith are all strong, play well in the corners, and play with an edge.

Then you had guys like Handzus, Frolik, etc who played a strong playoff style game in the playoffs last year.

The Hawks are skilled but they certainly aren't soft, and will use grit to breakdown other teams (ie. Vancouver). They just don't need to show it in the regular season since they are so good, but when the going gets tough come playoff time they will play with grit.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The Hawks have grit though, and they tend to bring that out more in the playoffs.

Bolland, Bolig, Bickell, Seabrooke, Hjalmarrson, Shaw, Smith, Kruger all play a gritty game.

And their skill guys (outside of Kane) aren't really soft either.

Toews, Hossa, Sharp, and Keith are all strong, play well in the corners, and play with an edge.

Then you had guys like Handzus, Frolik, etc who played a strong playoff style game in the playoffs last year.

The Hawks are skilled but they certainly aren't soft, and will use grit to breakdown other teams (ie. Vancouver). They just don't need to show it in the regular season since they are so good, but when the going gets tough come playoff time they will play with grit.

Those "grit" players really aren't part of the core. I just think it goes to show how important/difficult it is to assemble a team with the likes of Toews/Kane/Hossa/Sharp.

[moon]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It hasn't just been CP people making that claim. Plugged in hockey people like Duhatschek and now Friedman are pointing out that their contacts in the league - genuine NHL players, agents, managers, etc. - see the Flames as a team with a lot of meddling in management of the team.

I have never heard them say that there was meddling just that is the impression from people around the league.

Might not be a big difference for people who have an agenda they are trying to push but Friedman for one has said numerous times that people would want to find out first because the perception is there not that there is any proof or that he knows anything. He has gone out of his way to say he doesn't know if there is meddling or not.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Red John

Little late joining the party, but want to chime in regarding "meddling".

It's obvious the new GM is going to be that in title only - he'll handle the day to day operations but make no mistake this will be Burke's team and he'll be driving the bus.

It's a risky hierarchy that hasn't worked for most teams but it can work provided the right people are doing the meddling.

In reality, it's a hierarchy that simply takes away the traditional decision-making role of the GM. There's no risk at all. There are specific roles in running a hockey club that includes the financial side of the business. Burke is no stranger to the role of GM and President and even meddling from above, but he's old school and believes that hockey decisions should be left to hockey people. In hockey, it's really the role of the President that is superfluous rather than the GM's role. In the end, someone has to make the decisions. If you treat Burke as the GM and the GM as his assistant GM there's little difference.

I think it's reasonable to say that it's a unique situation in Calgary. If you look at other teams with this hierarchy, you have a President with no GM experience, and that includes John Davidson. The issue here is that Burke has a reputation for essentially making his own decisions. Not saying that he doesn't listen to his team, but everywhere he's been he's had the reputation of being the guy calling the shots. Someone like John Davidson on the other hand has the reputation of being much willing to defer to his GM and head scout.

Originally Posted by Red John

It's almost never mentioned but look at the Chicago Blackhawks. Stan Bowman may be GM but its public that all decisions are made as a team between himself, Scotty Bowman, and John McDonagh (who in fact fired Dale Tallon because Tallon didn't involve him enough - he just waited for Tallon to make a mistake he could scapegoat him over).

It's almost never mentioned because Stan Bowman really is in charge. Just because he seeks the advice of Daddy and listens to him doesn't make him any less in power. I haven't heard much in the way of Mcdonough meddling with decisions relating to hockey operations. Putting your own guy in charge of making hockey-related decisions is a bit different from giving your own input on who to draft and who to trade etc.

[taxbuster]

...and maybe, just maybe, if King and Edwards had been meddling, they saw how "well" it worked out and hired Burke to do the meddling instead of them. Makes sense if they decided to get out of the way.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by moon

I have never heard them say that there was meddling just that is the impression from people around the league.

Might not be a big difference for people who have an agenda they are trying to push but Friedman for one has said numerous times that people would want to find out first because the perception is there not that there is any proof or that he knows anything. He has gone out of his way to say he doesn't know if there is meddling or not.

I believe Bob Mackenzie's exact words were "This is the most hands on ownership group in the NHL".

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Those "grit" players really aren't part of the core. I just think it goes to show how important/difficult it is to assemble a team with the likes of Toews/Kane/Hossa/Sharp.

Which is exactly what Burke was saying.

There is a place for the skill guys, you need the Kane, Hossa, and Sharp types to be successful. But you need size and grit sprinkled in the lineup to make it work.

Don't forget the Brian Bickell was 5th in Playoff scoring, was playing on the top line, and was a huge reason the Hawks won the cup scoring a PPG over the last two rounds of the playoffs.

I think that is what Burke is talking about when he says the need needs to add some beef.

[moon]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I believe Bob Mackenzie's exact words were "This is the most hands on ownership group in the NHL".

Based on his perception or facts he had from people in the know?

I certainly think there is a perception that the owners/King are meddling but haven't heard anyone say this is fact.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

would anyone seriously even consider trading Monahan for RR straight up now? Cause that is exactly what Feaster was rolling the dice on.

And when that hail mary failed and the team continued to sink, the Flames proceed with a fire sale not 5-6 weeks later?

This wasn't a management team with any sort of real plan...more like wildly flailing in the dark.

Even worse though was had Colorado not matched, and had O'Reilly not had to go through waivers, the Flames likely would have had to re-sign Iginla and not trade Bouwmeester. Imagine if the Avalanche had our first round pick last year. There's not a chance that Feaster would have moved our two best players only to result in the team getting worse and a conference rival getting a better first round pick. Between that, not asking for clarification from the NHL on O'Reilly's waiver status, and thinking that O'Reilly is a franchise centre, Feaster, and anyone involved should have been fired on the spot. I think the only reason the organization let Feaster keep his job for as long as they did was to avoid being a further laughing stock by admitting that they screwed up.

[FAN]

I wanted to give my 2 pennies:

Pro Brian Burke:
We hired Burke as President to rebuild this team. He made it clear that he was the one calling the shots. He made the determination that he didn't want Feaster and Weisbrod on the management team of the Calgary Flames and that's a decision the Flames hired Burke to make. While I'm still sad about Weisbrod leaving the team, it makes sense to let Feaster go. Feaster was like a middleman that wasn't required. Feaster offers little in the way of scouting and doesn't like to travel with the team. If Burke is going to be more hands-off than in the past, he needs a set of eyes he trusts to travel with this team. I've said in other threads that just because this is a rebuilding year doesn't mean everyone and ever move gets a free pass. The results under Feaster's management have simply been unacceptable. Furthermore, while some posters downplay the significance of the ROR offer sheet, Burke probably had a completely different view of things. Considering Burke's background, his past involvement with the CBA and league office, is there any chance he can excuse Feaster for feeling he knew better than the league in interpreting the rules of the CBA?


Pro Feaster:
The hiring of Brian Burke essentially made Feaster like an AGM. If Burke was calling the shots wasn't Feaster's responsibility simply to be the guy who is on the phones with other GMs and negotiating contracts? That's something Feaster is supposedly competent at. Posters who have defended Feaster argue that Feaster is a good facilitator. While Feaster may be someone who isn't shy about speaking his mind, Feaster does respect Burke and knows where he stands in the hierarchy. Isn't Feaster capable of filling the job requirements under this hierarchy?

Pro Weisbrod:
It's not common for a GM to be fired at the same time as his assistant GM. This amounts to a housecleaning except the coach isn't fired (yet). Weisbrod has a proven track record as a college hockey scout. Why not let the new GM decide whether to keep Weisbrod as an assistant GM or reposition him to say amateur college scouting? Oh wait, Burke is making the decisions. Honestly, this seems like an unnecessary firing to me unless Weisbrod was at odds with Burke.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Righteous1

How long till the "Fire Burke" thread on CP? Any wagers?

You mean there isn't one already? Did you do a search lol

[moon]

Originally Posted by FAN

Pro Weisbrod:
It's not common for a GM to be fired at the same time as his assistant GM. This amounts to a housecleaning except the coach isn't fired (yet). Weisbrod has a proven track record as a college hockey scout. Why not let the new GM decide whether to keep Weisbrod as an assistant GM or reposition him to say amateur college scouting? Oh wait, Burke is making the decisions. Honestly, this seems like an unnecessary firing to me unless Weisbrod was at odds with Burke.

What is his proven track record as a college scout?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by moon

What is his proven track record as a college scout?

He did play a role in building the Bruins cup winning team but it's unclear how much. He's definitely unproven and as we heard yesterday according to Millions, Steinberg, etc. there were doubts around the league about his credentials.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by moon

Based on his perception or facts he had from people in the know?

I certainly think there is a perception that the owners/King are meddling but haven't heard anyone say this is fact.

When he said that, it was presented as a statement of fact, rather than saying "it is the perception league wide that..."

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by moon

Based on his perception or facts he had from people in the know?

I certainly think there is a perception that the owners/King are meddling but haven't heard anyone say this is fact.

Then you're not really listening.

Eric Duhatschek says, point blank, "Ken King basically runs hockey operations."

Bob Mackenzie says, point blank on national television, "The Flames have maybe the most involved ownership in the NHL."

Elliott Friedman specifically mentions, on Calgary Radio, "the president" and "ownership" involvement as being factors which would make Calgary's new GM position an unattractive destination for prospective general managers.

Here's some more from Friedman:

"I think the thing that, the toughest thing to grade feaster on [...] and I do think when the flames go through their interviews, the biggest question that the Candidates are going to have is what is the power structure of this organization and how much interference am I going to have? That is the biggest knock the flames have as an organization right now outside; that there are too many people who get to make decisions and it's very hard for a hockey guy to have control. "
http://pmd.fan960.com/audio_on_deman...-Interview.mp3

[moon]

Didn't hear Duthachek and already commented on Mackenzie, but I have heard Friedman many times and he always says that is the perception and that he and his sources don't really know what goes on there.

He specifically said it was an attractive destination but that the new guy would want to be sure about the rumours before going there. Friedman has made it very specific that it is not facts coming from him but the perception.

Not sure about the other two reporters though as I haven't heard them discuss it.

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Then you're not really listening.

Eric Duhatschek says, point blank, "Ken King basically runs hockey operations."

Bob Mackenzie says, point blank on national television, "The Flames have maybe the most involved ownership in the NHL."

Elliott Friedman specifically mentions, on Calgary Radio, "the president" and "ownership" involvement as being factors which would make Calgary's new GM position an unattractive destination for prospective general managers.

Basically, maybe - don't really scream fact though. However, I know what you're getting at.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by moon

Didn't hear Duthachek and already commented on Mackenzie, but I have heard Friedman many times and he always says that is the perception and that he and his sources don't really know what goes on there.

He specifically said it was an attractive destination but that the new guy would want to be sure about the rumours before going there. Friedman has made it very specific that it is not facts coming from him but the perception.

Not sure about the other two reporters though as I haven't heard them discuss it.

If you're looking from statements of facts from a guy who maneuvers through innuendo and insider sources, you're going to be looking for awhile.

The only way he says he has facts about that is if he admits he has a source in the organization that is telling him those things, jeopardizing his source.

The major hockey media establishment have all commented on the involved nature of Flames ownership, from the Board of Governors, to the on ice product. Ken King signed Glencross to a contract on horseback while Feaster was the GM.

You have to be pretty creative at this point to come up with a semantical argument to the contrary.

[moon]

Of course I am looking for facts if I am going to treat it as though it is fact.

If they are involved as much as people try to make it seem it would easily come out.

When Jerry Jones meddles it comes out, when TB meddled with Feaster before it was out, when Snyder meddles in Washington it comes out.

There is plenty of media to report things if they are so clearly happening and plenty of anonymous sources that they can report a lot more than perception.

If Friedman knew anything for sure he could easily report on it without jeopardizing anything.

[Flamenspiel]

I think most of the media comments are pre-Burke. I am sure Burke is in command now and he has been able to get talented people to work with him before. I see no change in that.

In terms of Calgary not being a standard model, its already been pointed out that Chicago is run by the president and I would have to say that Colorado also has a weak GM( the coach reports to the president, not the GM).