[News] Feaster and Weisbrod relieved of duties. Burke will hire a new GM

[dying4acup]

During his morning PC he mention that he texted the Boston University head coach to say that he loved the flames prospects there (JG and Arnold) and tell them not to worry.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by getbak

It's not like the Hawks are a tiny team. Andrew Shaw is their smallest player at 5'10" 180lbs. Oduya is their smallest d-man at 6'0" 190lbs.

They have Kane listed at 5'11

he looks like he's about 5'8 out there.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Also, that first cup winning Blackhawks team was pretty damned big with Ladd, Burrish, Brouwer, Byfuglien, Eager, Seabrook, Hossa and Toews taking regular shifts.

Especially this guy.

...damn I accidentally deleted the rest of my post oh well.

[SHOGUN]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

During his morning PC he mention that he texted the Boston University head coach to say that he loved the flames prospects there (JG and Arnold) and tell them not to worry.

Boston College*

[Freeway]

Best wishes to them both. Always liked Feaster for the mere fact that he always made sure I got my questions about AHL contracts and the CBA answered.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Itse

What I'm uncomfortable with is Burke's idea that there is one model.

Last champions: 'Hawks, Kings, Bruins, 'Hawks, Penguins, Wings, Ducks, Hurricanes.

Kings, Bruins and Ducks fit the model, 'Hawks, Penguins, Wings Hurricanes don't, so really, generally speaking the bruising team isn't the one that wins the championship.

The Blackhawks are a team that plays hard, so they tend to look bigger than they are, but it's not about size. It's about having good players and a good team mix.

And that drafting record is absolutely horrid, and since Burke is exactly the type that will meddle with the decisions, I have a hard time believing that it's somehow a product of inferior Leafs scouting.

I guess we'll see. But if there's one thing I've learned to trust as a Flames fan, it's poor management and mediocre coaching.

It's like you read my mind.

We are too small to win anything if significance. End of story. But the Anaheim model is not the most successful one necessarily. Chicago doesn't fit that mold, nor does Pittsburgh.

We can get bigger without the need for the pile of garbage to follow in Toronto. I'm not so sure that's the mold I want to see the flames play in.

The top 6 treams in the NHL (Chicago, Anaheim, Boston, LA, San Jose, St Louis) are all big, but aren't all "bruising". What exactly is Toronto? He took over 5 years ago. Where are they now after losing 2 of 4 firsts Burke had in his time there

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00008490.html

[thefoss1957]

Certainly not putting down the other Cup winners, and no matter what style is played, a hot Goaltender can trump all...just saying that the Red Wing puck possession Model seems to be the one that has been successful as far as consistency since the Lockout. Certainly, a good chemistry needs to be built, but hitting is getting more and more, let us say, de-emphasized, with the way rules are being interpreted as far as the way interference, hooking, holding are enforced. The league seems to want to see a speedy game with offensive flow...

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It's like you read my mind.

We are too small to win anything if significance. End of story. But the Anaheim model is not the most successful one necessarily. Chicago doesn't fit that mold, nor does Pittsburgh.

We can get bigger without the need for the pile of garbage to follow in Toronto. I'm not so sure that's the mold I want to see the flames play in.

The top 6 treams in the NHL (Chicago, Anaheim, Boston, LA, San Jose, St Louis) are all big, but aren't all "bruising". What exactly is Toronto? He took over 5 years ago. Where are they now after losing 2 of 4 firsts Burke had in his time there

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00008490.html

The playoffs. After 8yrs.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

The playoffs. After 8yrs.

Haha. Barely. There in a tenuous hold right now and are losing steam, looking like they may not hold on. In essence, they were mediocre last year and are worse this year. There's nothing in the pipeline to suggest this is getting better

Is this where you hope the Flames are 5 years from now?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

Certainly not putting down the other Cup winners, and no matter what style is played, a hot Goaltender can trump all...just saying that the Red Wing puck possession Model seems to be the one that has been successful as far as consistency since the Lockout. Certainly, a good chemistry needs to be built, but hitting is getting more and more, let us say, de-emphasized, with the way rules are being interpreted as far as the way interference, hooking, holding are enforced. The league seems to want to see a speedy game with offensive flow...

It's not necessarily about hitting and fighting, it's about just not being small.

Even Detroit is a team that while not super physical, is by no means 'small'. Baertschi, hudler, cammalleri, backlund, Stajan...is just wayyyyy too small up front.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

heh...I have visions of last year's SCF, with Kane running circles around Chara!.

My feeling is, though, a team of pure grinders is NOT the best way to build a team for the 2010s...and it seems to be what Burke really wants.

Chara was playing hurt last year, not really a fair comparison.

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by Husky

Burke's drafting record

That draft history is actually pretty decent when you think about it. Schenn and Kadri both look like quality players, and they are expecting great things out of Reilly. They had no first rounder in 2010 because of the Kessel trade. So really his only terrible year was in 2011, and when you look at that draft there was not a whole lot of decent players taken after the Leafs picks.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2011e.html

It's hard to be critical of someones drafting in a year like that, when the apparent depth of the draft seems to be incredibly low.

Not saying Burke had a stellar record in Toronto, as he got nothing out of lower picks (so far), but even with Kadri alone he's done better than the Flames post-Phaneuf (not including Monahan).

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It's not necessarily about hitting and fighting, it's about just not being small.

Even Detroit is a team that while not super physical, is by no means 'small'. Baertschi, hudler, cammalleri, backlund, Stajan...is just wayyyyy too small up front.

I agree with this. Plus/Minus the truculence, size is somewhat important

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Haha. Barely. There in a tenuous hold right now and are losing steam, looking like they may not hold on. In essence, they were mediocre last year and are worse this year. There's nothing in the pipeline to suggest this is getting better

Is this where you hope the Flames are 5 years from now?

No.

You asked where the leafs were after Burke, and that's where they were, and not because of nonis. Burke wasn't done building though.

I assume, wrongly perhaps, that Burke was fired due to lack of results.

I just remember that Darryl Sutter did a lot of good in Calgary, but his good was mostly judged from getting the flames, after 7yrs of missing playoffs, into the finals. Who knows what happens if the leafs don't blow as 3-goal lead in the 3rd period. Might be like the flames in 2004 or oilers in 2006.

[Red John]

Little late joining the party, but want to chime in regarding "meddling".

It's obvious the new GM is going to be that in title only - he'll handle the day to day operations but make no mistake this will be Burke's team and he'll be driving the bus.

It's a risky hierarchy that hasn't worked for most teams but it can work provided the right people are doing the meddling.

It's almost never mentioned but look at the Chicago Blackhawks. Stan Bowman may be GM but its public that all decisions are made as a team between himself, Scotty Bowman, and John McDonagh (who in fact fired Dale Tallon because Tallon didn't involve him enough - he just waited for Tallon to make a mistake he could scapegoat him over).

So far that model has worked well for the Hawks. Pretty much every signing/trade they've made has worked out for them.

Having watched the presser it's obvious Burke is only not becoming GM himself because he promised ownership that wasn't his intention when he was first hired and wants to stick to his word. Make no mistake he has no desire to be a figurehead in an office as an "advisor"...he wants to run a team.

Burke also alluded to the fact that there may be another GM hire in a few years again (regarding Conroy). It looks like he may want to start a hire and promote-from-within type cycle. Not sure what his plans would be for the outgoing GM at that point - create another position?

Just some food for thought. Bottom line - this complicated structure has a better chance at working when the guy at the top is competent.

[ParaguayPlett]

This smacks of Murray Edwards. I hate that man.

[Husky]

Not sure why ducks model was pointed out. If anything I would look at the bruins and hawks,model. Teams who have been to the cup finals multiple times lately. Both teams have a few small skilled players too.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by ParaguayPlett

This smacks of Murray Edwards. I hate that man.

That is a highly disrespectful statement to the primary owner of your favourite team.

[dirk diggler]

Burke mentioned he spoke to his contacts around the league to get an impression on how the Flames were looked at, would be interesting to see what some of the remarks were on Feaster? obviously not too positive...

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by ParaguayPlett

This smacks of Murray Edwards. I hate that man.

i just hope he doesnt turn into a Jerry Jones/Dan Snyder type of owner that has to meddle with everything. that never works