Calgarypuck Mafia Game Thread

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

I was voting for DropIt because I believed he could have been the last Oiler. Winnipegfan came in and tied the vote on Devo, I was trying to debate the idea of a tied vote as well as looking to see if I missed anything on Devo, then all of the sudden you guys flipped to voting Puxlut. So my options were get strong armed into pulling my vote off someone I thought could be last Oiler and in the process getting someone banned I haven’t really suspected as being the Oiler, or sit tight and hope that you guys didn’t tie.

Do you think puxlut is the last Oiler fan?

I don't think Pux is the laster Oiler for the reasons in my previous post. The flip to Pux happened in the last 10 minutes so time was pretty much up anyway - you say you were looking at Devo as a potential option, but when were you going to state your opinion? I guess I'm seeing you as just sitting around and trying to avoid doing much of anything.

I do respect your opinion saying you didn't want to move off someone you thought was the Oiler in favour of someone you felt was Flames as I felt the same way until the last few minutes.

Question for you - you say that you just sat tight and hoped we didn't tie. When we started moving, did you not see the tie coming since were all just moving from Devo to Pux?

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by Puxlut

I thought that there was lots of information given during that last hour. I feel more comfortable in my suspicions now. Hence my vote.
I admit I don't play alot of theories and more with my gut... I've always been like that. And I know I am an emotional player... that too has been proven. When people know that and try use that to force me into something I don't believe in or attack my integrity, I get defensive. That's what I do. I should have gone straight to bed, but peeked at my ipad while laying in bed and saw that stuff going down and I couldn't help voice my concerns. And I got drawn into it by WF... like a putz I am.
The tie was willfully forced and it forced me to be put in a position to have to choose between 2 people I thought were town. What else would you have me do? The only thing I could do was the emotional thing and keep my vote on who I think is the last greaser and hope that others agree with me and flip to my vote. That's basically why I stayed and let the tie happen.. . it was the lesser of 2 evils at the last possible second. I hope that answers your question mrk?
Zero lynches=ZERO percent of winning. I'm not a smart woman, but I wouldn't lay a bet in Vegas with those odds.
Sorry... I gotta go for a bit.

So I am just curious what information are you using to vote me? And drawn into what? I simply asked questions and to be honest this reply is a bit soft for me. There are zero facts other than I was right I avoided a townie being hung, which would have meant two townies down this day, how in the world are your odds better than that? I agree that if we don't Lynch we can't win but how is it better to Lynch incorrectly? I was convinced DropIt wasn't Oiler so I fought for it, I was right and now you are claiming I am somehow suspicious? You still haven't answered any of the allegations that you and your Oiler partners colluded on Day 1, then GGG backed it up by throwing suspicion your way after the vote. You have been basically in the shadows since.....

I can understand that the end of the day got heated, but I already stated I am a night poster as I have a toddler and can't post at work. However, I discovered my theory that DropIt was town in the last hour but there was very little posting from anyone so I fought for my theory against banning him. I actually don't understand why he was targeted in the night but it reinforces my thoughts that you wanted him dead which is why you were against the tie in the first place because you are Oiler and need town folk to die. I stand by my vote against you, but I also want to see where mark gets with his disunion with HG because he has a point he was also slinking around at the ned of the night.

[Hockeyguy15]

So I show up later than I anticipated (about 30 mins before the deadline), you guys start talking tie and ask what I think. I give you my answer and start to look and see if you guys have presented enough for me to feel like Devo has a better chance at being the Oiler. I’m busy trying to wrap my head around what you guys are doing while trying to go and look at what has been said about Devo and then you guys flip it to Puxlut. Why do I feel like if things were different and I wasn’t able to be online you would have come back and said “how come you didn’t show up when you said you would?”

You said you don’t think you didn’t think you made the best decisions due to the time crunch and being able to think through your actions, and yet here you are questioning me for trying to think things through under the crunch.

And no I didn’t think it was going to tie, DropIt said he was going to make sure of that.

Did you think you were going to tie? Your comment of “did we just force a tie again?” In post #957 sure seems like you weren’t expecting a tie.

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Yes, this does answer my question. I will say it would have been nice to hear you say that at the time rather than now, but I understand the panic that was felt in those last 60 minutes or so.

This is where I struggle with Pux being Oilers: if she was the only Oiler left, then it wouldn't matter who got banned, Devo or DropIt. As long as it wasn't her. No one would have blamed her to vote one or the other as there were a few people who didn't want a tie. But Pux withheld her vote - I feel like that doesn't jive if she's an Oiler. Wouldn't it be better to ban a Flames fan in the day and basically have no blood on your hands?

I circle back to HG again - he was there at the deadline and was pretty much the only one not reacting emotionally. Like he just wanted to watch what was happening, but not interjecting too much. The panic to get something done was not felt by him.

I agree to an extent, but she would have outed herself or at least drawn some attention to herself with a vote against a townie. It is actually a great strategy to play the "tie is bad" card and draw as much attention to the tie rather than her inability to engage in the vote. She clearly stated at the end of the night that she did not think either Devo or DropIt where Oiler, but she gave no possibility or argument other than she chose me for making a tie. So if she didn't think either of them were Oiler her argument that no Lynch no chance at Oiler is hogwash. So who did she think the Oiler was then? Not Devo, not DropIt, didn't make a claim on me other than a tie initiator so I was bad, she had no argument for Scorn or HG so what was she doing?

This leaves her and now she has no defence and is throwing out the tie again as the sole reason when the flip proved that DropIt was innocent. The dude was town and was going to self sacrifice? Why would that be better, I don't care about long term mathematical odds etc. Our goal is to have the best information and eyes targeting the search, he was town and I believed it he could have offered more insight from someone I trusted. Now he can't but we at least have another town person here to help. Sorry the no tie thing to save two people I believe are town still doesn't fly with me.

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

So I show up later than I anticipated (about 30 mins before the deadline), you guys start talking tie and ask what I think. I give you my answer and start to look and see if you guys have presented enough for me to feel like Devo has a better chance at being the Oiler. I’m busy trying to wrap my head around what you guys are doing while trying to go and look at what has been said about Devo and then you guys flip it to Puxlut. Why do I feel like if things were different and I wasn’t able to be online you would have come back and said “how come you didn’t show up when you said you would?”

You said you don’t think you didn’t think you made the best decisions due to the time crunch and being able to think through your actions, and yet here you are questioning me for trying to think things through under the crunch.

And no I didn’t think it was going to tie, DropIt said he was going to make sure of that.

Did you think you were going to tie? Your comment of “did we just force a tie again?” In post #957 sure seems like you weren’t expecting a tie.

Why were you looking into Devo? We never targeted him? The question was just about a tie. Pux made herself suspicious with her behaviour at the moment of the tie. I felt like you did not. You stated your opinion, now I was hoping for more elaboration but the reason I moved to Pux was due to her inability to formulate a response, and I am sorry I refuse to buy the "I was emotional" excuse, that is a cop out. We were all emotional and trying to find answers. SO again I don't suspect you at this point as you did give your opinion, but I am curious why you investigated Devo? Was it to see if you should avoid a tie by moving to him? That would make sense to me, as you were not in support of the tie. However, it was never intended for us to move to Devo. I also did not want DropIt to self kill as I still do not see the logic in hanging someone I believed was, and now is proven to have been, town.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by WinnipegFan

Why were you looking into Devo? We never targeted him? The question was just about a tie. Pux made herself suspicious with her behaviour at the moment of the tie. I felt like you did not. You stated your opinion, now I was hoping for more elaboration but the reason I moved to Pux was due to her inability to formulate a response, and I am sorry I refuse to buy the "I was emotional" excuse, that is a cop out. We were all emotional and trying to find answers. SO again I don't suspect you at this point as you did give your opinion, but I am curious why you investigated Devo? Was it to see if you should avoid a tie by moving to him? That would make sense to me, as you were not in support of the tie. However, it was never intended for us to move to Devo. I also did not want DropIt to self kill as I still do not see the logic in hanging someone I believed was, and now is proven to have been, town.

The votes were 3 Devo and 3 DropIt when I got there. I didn’t think the tie was the best for us, so I wanted to see if there was something I missed about him that could make me flip my vote.

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

So I show up later than I anticipated (about 30 mins before the deadline), you guys start talking tie and ask what I think. I give you my answer and start to look and see if you guys have presented enough for me to feel like Devo has a better chance at being the Oiler. I’m busy trying to wrap my head around what you guys are doing while trying to go and look at what has been said about Devo and then you guys flip it to Puxlut. Why do I feel like if things were different and I wasn’t able to be online you would have come back and said “how come you didn’t show up when you said you would?”

You said you don’t think you didn’t think you made the best decisions due to the time crunch and being able to think through your actions, and yet here you are questioning me for trying to think things through under the crunch.

And no I didn’t think it was going to tie, DropIt said he was going to make sure of that.

Did you think you were going to tie? Your comment of “did we just force a tie again?” In post #957 sure seems like you weren’t expecting a tie.

Yes - that's why I was asking you. I was confused myself as at the time I thought we couldn't have a tie since DropIt was saying it was either him or Pux. I was wondering if I was the only one who got confused about the tie.

[mrkajz44]

Traveling home today so I'll check in tonight - I'll need to process everything that happened

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

I still don't understand what I did to make you CONVINCED that I am an Oiler? I'm not changing my vote. So unless someone totally slips up in the next bit, I'll keep my vote on whom I think is the shadiest player here.

[mrkajz44]

So yeah - I know I said I'd check in tonight but it's been a long day and I don't have the energy to give a full review of the last minute tie panic. I will do it first thing though. Without re-reading anything I still think my vote ends up on HG. He was there at the deadline, didn't want a tie, and didn't do anything about it. Pix was at least talking, but HG was silent and just let everything happen. That's how I remember it anyway

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

[Oling_Roachinen]

Day 6

With 6 posters, it takes 4 votes to ban user prior to deadline. It takes at least 2 votes to ban user at the deadline. A tied vote at deadline results in no banning.

Vote Count:

Votes Winnipegfan(1): Puxlut

Votes Puxlut(1): WinnipegFan

Hasn’t Voted (6):
Hockeyguy15, devo22, mrkajz44, Scornfire

Deadline is Monday, February 11th at 10:00 PM Mountain Time.

[Hockeyguy15]

So you take issue with the fact that I was at the deadline, but took no action to avoid a tied vote?

I believe that DropIt could have been the last Oiler so that's where my vote was. I had 30 mins to try and go back and look at Devo since he was the other vote while trying to keep current in the thread. Ignoring the fact that DropIt said he wasn't going to allow a tie, why should I remove my vote from the person I believed to be most likely to be the Oiler?

Post #864 you say that you are glad the vote is off you but would rather have it on WinnipegFan.

Post #924 you say that you think a no tie is the best from your standpoint.

Post #936 at 4 minutes before the deadline you tell WinnipegFan you can't commit to voting for Puxlut (keep in mind earlier you had stated you wanted the vote on WinnipegFan).

2 Mintues later, 2 minutes before the deadline you vote for Puxlut after saying you don't like it in post #943.

And now you are blaming me for taking not action at the deadline when you are flipping your vote to Puxlut (a person you said you don't think is the Oiler in post #936) 2 minutes before the deadline, while following a person you had just said earlier in the night that you wanted the vote on.

The vote was flipped to Puxlut at 9:57. I'm not sure how you expect me to be looking back at devo, contributing to the commotion at the deadline, stay current with that commotion, and get on board with your panicked deadline flip.

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Sorry I’m late, life happens

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Sorry just looking at the recent developments.

Off the top of my head, I’m not the biggest fan. We have 0 chance of banning the Oiler that way, and we don’t get a card flip so we could basically be running in circles tomorrow. Our goal is to ban the Oilers, doesn’t matter if we’re the ones alive at the end or not. Win as a team dead or alive.

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

How it does what?

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

If we don’t ban anyone today we don’t get to see their flip. So basically what happens today cannot be looked at with that info, we stay in the same spot. Yes there will be a night ban but you’re letting the Oilers dictate the game, you only get the info they want you to have.

These are all of HG's posts at the deadline when the panic was happening. Two of the four have no substance. The other other two are logically sound, but offered no help with actual voting. Everything said about his thoughts on a tie are not wrong - but the issue I take is these are more just factual posts without actually giving any opinions. Everyone else was talking about their votes and potential movement on them, but HG offered no insight to his opinion.

I see today he has now stated that he didn't move because he thought DropIt was the last Oiler. Why not say that at the time? He also states that he didn't want to move his vote because DropIt wasn't going to allow a tie - again, why not say that at the time. It's easy to go back and give reasoning for actions now when there was time to process it and make sure he's saying the right thing.

The whole takeaway I have from the panic before the deadline is this:

Scorn/Devo - No comment as they were not there

Mrkajz/Pux/Winnipeg/DropIt - All of us were making more emotional posts trying to figure out exactly what to do, if a tie was good, why we did or didn't want to vote for certain people. We didn't have to take a long time to think about what we posted, we just wanted our ideas out there

HG - His posts were very deliberate and without haste. He wanted to make sure he was saying the right thing. I believe this is because as an Oiler, he knows everything about all the players and didn't want to slip up with some of his insider information by making a quick post or two. Go back and read his posts compared to everyone else - it just reads different.

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by DropIt

I think one vote away from kill? This is too bad as I'll be flipping town, and again we will be losing 2 in one night.

I will agree with MrK here as it will obviously save me, but to think the Mafia set up someone like me from the end of day 1 to kill off one of my own, rather then to kill off a townie, is quite the reach.

Just think for a second of the 2 outcomes: either I kill off a flames fan( Agulati/scorn) and can easily play the "I have nothing to base this on, sucks that we banned a Flames fan" at the end of day 1 and keep our numbers.
Instead its being suggested that I, instead killed off my own guy, ruining our numbers, and then (poorly) tried to take heat of GGG when he was in the midst of a self-spiral so the whole game could come down to me trying to beat an entire game of Flames fans? That's a huge stretch to say the Mafia would voluntarily kill off their own day 1 to try and set the table for days 3 and on.

As I said earlier, MrK needs to be listened to more, and not just because he is echoing my theory on HG, but because it just flat makes more sense that the Mafia began to panic when Bonded was nearing kill, so they set out GGG to take the heat off him (because 3G wasnt the proxy), when that didnt work they had to adjust as it was going to become easy to see GGG was an Oiler after backing Bonded the way he did and trying desperately to get the vote elsewhere.

So with that, their only choice of action was to sacrifice GGG when Bonded was killed and had to set up their Proxy Oiler to head that up.

This is why HG is suspicious to me, he hits all those markers.
- Didnt vote Bonded, but didnt lobby one way or the other for him.
- once Bonded was killed, went right after GGG, exploiting his Bonded defenses
- headed up, along with diss, the kill for GGG with his overwhelming evidence
- Gained town favour by doing so
- is now slowly picking off players two at a time, and was even quick to vote MRK yesterday, whether he had his days mixed or not, this still ends in 2 Flames kills and the arrow would be pointed even more in my direction for bringing him up and potentially being the one to kill off yet another Flames fan

My question still stands, everyone knew HG15 is a strong player and is successfully lobbying for kills and getting the votes and people to listen, why would Mafia chance keeping him around all game in the case that his sights were to turn to them?

Originally Posted by DropIt

If I do indeed get offed today, I would personally say that we should be looking at HG15, WPG (GGG atrocity) and MRK/Devo. I think the idea that mafia wouldn't dare vote on Bonded is holding up at this point as it looks like, with me, 4/6 of the vote on Bonded will turn Flames fan.

I've got like 3 more hours and will be both trying g to change votes and will answer any suspicions or questions if there are any

Originally Posted by DropIt

So Basically, HG and I are accusing each other of the same thing, yeah? But somehow it is more believable that:

I'd kill off my own guy day 1, leave GGG alone when he was basically on the hot seat and ripe for killing, and then quietly play/investigate the next 2 days and arguably being one of the first to mistakenly get the SebC train rolling.

Instead of, HG not voting off his own guy day 1, then jumping on GGG immediately after the Bonded kill when he was on the hot seat, after getting the GGG kill he then is part of the Crazy vote the next day.

Originally Posted by DropIt

Yeah I think an hour is cutting it a little close, at least given the participation level.

Either way, I hope Devo and HG get a serious look given whomever is night killed. The night kill should be interesting as well and hopefully draws some clues.

Mybe we get lucky and done people show up to change the vote in the next 50 mins

So let's talk about the night banning as well. DropIt is gone, which is a bit odd since he had 3 votes against him at the deadline and was very close to just getting banned by the town. Why ban him in the night phase when he'd likely be a target today?

Here are four posts by him yesterday expressing misgivings about HG. Only DropIt and myself seem to be ones talking about HG as a ban target. What better way to try and secure safety with numbers dwindling than to off one of the two vocal people against you? I think this also points to HG being the Oiler - the night kill doesn't really make sense otherwise? Anyone else have thoughts on that?

[mrkajz44]

Vote: Hockeyguy15

[Hockeyguy15]

Feel free to address anything I mentioned in my post 992.

I'm not panicking because DropIt flat out said that he would not allow a tie. You also are on the record as saying a tie is not best from your standpoint. In the back my mind no I didn't think you guys were going to tie, let alone flip to Puxlut with 2 minutes till the deadline.

I had 30 minutes to go back and look at Devo to see if I missed something on him and felt that it was more likely he was the Oiler than DropIt. I was rushing trying to do that as well as trying to keep current in the thread. I didn't think wasting time posting was a priority, unless I found something I thought relevant on Devo I wasn't going to waste time.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

the night kill doesn't really make sense otherwise? Anyone else have thoughts on that?

I've been thinking about this for a while and I can't come with a lot. The only thing I can thibk of is, like I said, if WF is the Oiler and killed DropIt in order to paint the tie in a positive light.

most of the other nightkills made sense to me. bizaro is a good player and gave GGG a bit of town cred. diss was on fire in this game and a huge threat to the Oilers. Fuzz was confirmed town, so another easy choice. agulati and DropIt though, I really can't come up with a lot. We've reached a point in this game though where this is bound to happen, especially in such a vanilla setup.

DropIts "why hasn't HG been nightkilled yet?" argument is interesting though. I myself thought this could be a ploy by the last Oiler, but since it's now confirmed that a townie who raised the question, it's certainly interesting. If HG is the Oiler, he certainly did a good job separating from GGG on day 2.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Winnipeg - that tie vote makes no sense. What's the thought there?

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Actually yeah, a tie might actually not be terrible now that I'm thinking about it. I just always thought tie = bad, but if we are looking for one Oiler then maybe not. How much further ahead are we though? Just a little more info from the night banning?

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

If we tie today and force another tie another day, we would earn an extra day. I can't decide if that's a good thing? Will we get enough info from the night bans to make it worth it?

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Thoughts on a tie HG?

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

The tie makes sense if you think neither devo nor DropIt are Oilers and then its better not to kill a Flames fan. I believe DropIt to be a Flames fan, but have misgivings on Devo - so no tie I think is ultimately best from my standpoint.

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

This is actually not an unreasonable request - Pux is here but refused to break the tie. Is this because she thinks neither are Oilers? Strong enough that she wants a tie?

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

I'm not a fan of Pux right now, but I don't think she is Oilers - I cannot commit to that plan.

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Fine - I don't like this though

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Did we just force a tie again?

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

So let's talk about the night banning as well. DropIt is gone, which is a bit odd since he had 3 votes against him at the deadline and was very close to just getting banned by the town. Why ban him in the night phase when he'd likely be a target today?

Here are four posts by him yesterday expressing misgivings about HG. Only DropIt and myself seem to be ones talking about HG as a ban target. What better way to try and secure safety with numbers dwindling than to off one of the two vocal people against you? I think this also points to HG being the Oiler - the night kill doesn't really make sense otherwise? Anyone else have thoughts on that?

Why ban him? Simple misdirection?

Yesterday you were on the block and not a lot going on, I felt more confident voting DropIt an expressed I would rather vote for him. Then at the deadline I do show up and post about the tie.

If I'm the Oiler why do I stick my neck out and push a vote I feel more confident in instead of letting you go without rocking the boat, why would I not make any posts at the deadline and say I couldn't make it?

[Scornfire]

Apologies, I had a crazy Busy weekend between volunteering/work and Everquest (We're on the Final raid vying for World First... well, 2nd now, but literally raided Sunday 6am to 10pm /oof) Will catch up as soon as work quiets down today (Hopefully)

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

So you take issue with the fact that I was at the deadline, but took no action to avoid a tied vote?

I did take some issue with that, yes. Both you and Pux were there saying a tie was bad, but didn't actually take action to avoid it.

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

I believe that DropIt could have been the last Oiler so that's where my vote was. I had 30 mins to try and go back and look at Devo since he was the other vote while trying to keep current in the thread. Ignoring the fact that DropIt said he wasn't going to allow a tie, why should I remove my vote from the person I believed to be most likely to be the Oiler?

This is a fair comment - my only issue with this is you waited until today to say this and did not express this at the deadline.

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Post #864 you say that you are glad the vote is off you but would rather have it on WinnipegFan.

Agreed - that was how I felt at the time. I had just checked in after my day skiing and wanted to state where I was at before I had time to do a full catch-up

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Post #924 you say that you think a no tie is the best from your standpoint.

Yes - I stated that a no tie makes sense if one thought both Devo and DropIt were Flames fans (the vote was 3-3 at the time on those two). I said I believed Devo to be Oiler (and am still suspicious of him) so a no tie was better from my standpoint.

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Post #936 at 4 minutes before the deadline you tell WinnipegFan you can't commit to voting for Puxlut (keep in mind earlier you had stated you wanted the vote on WinnipegFan).

2 Mintues later, 2 minutes before the deadline you vote for Puxlut after saying you don't like it in post #943.

And now you are blaming me for taking not action at the deadline when you are flipping your vote to Puxlut (a person you said you don't think is the Oiler in post #936) 2 minutes before the deadline, while following a person you had just said earlier in the night that you wanted the vote on.

I'll admit I sort of panicked there. Post #940 changed my mind where Winnipeg told me that I wasn't getting my target, so I should just choose between Pux and DropIt, so I made the rash decision to move my vote. I knew the forum makes you wait 30 seconds between posts, so I probably had 1 minute or so to make that decision and still get the posts done in time.

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

The vote was flipped to Puxlut at 9:57. I'm not sure how you expect me to be looking back at devo, contributing to the commotion at the deadline, stay current with that commotion, and get on board with your panicked deadline flip.

Well - all I'm saying is everyone else there at the time seemed to be trying to do just that, stay up with the commotion and try to make something happen. You just sat there and watched. My read on that is you were afraid to post anything rash as something might slip out that you shouldn't say. When I played as mafia in a past game, I was terrified with each post that I might say something wrong, so I was very careful with my posts - the way you acted at the deadline felt like you were doing the same thing.