Which Goalie Do You Hope The Flames Add For 2016/17?

[polak]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

An NHL team that claims the playoffs are the goal every season simply can not go into next season with Ramo and Ortio as its NHL goalies.

Yes both looked like respectable NHL goalies during their best stretches. And both had stretches where they clearly belonged in the AHL. In Ortio's case, make that ECHL.

I'd say Ortio has had one bad stretch and outside of that has been phenomenal for both this team and the farm team. How quickly we forget he was an all star just last season. One bad stretch that was brought on by playing behind a team that was playing the worst I've ever seen a team play in the NHL. Do you know how much of a shock to your confidence it would be when you thought you were getting "your shot" and you play behind that tire fire? I'm not surprised it derailed his season. Since he's been back he's been playing like the AHL all star he was last year and people seem to just ignore it since he had 3 bad games in October.

Sign someone like Reimer or Ramo and roll with Ortio.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

You'd think anyone would be able to figure out that our goals against is horrible because of terrible goaltending. Ricardodw? He chalks it up to us not wanting to play defence.

LOLOL. I can't figure out if he's the most successful troll of all time or if he's really that clueless about the NHL.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by codynw

Could the terrible goaltending have anything to do with that?

It might... but playing this exciting high offense hockey might make it impossible for any goalie to be successful compared to the rest of the league.

Is Ortio a bad goalie? Or is a .900 sv % inherent with this team's style of play?

The Flames will have to get a lot better on team defense before they bring up Gillies... or they will ruin him quickly like they did with Ortio.


The Flames had to pay 3.8M for UFA Ramo who was #33 in Sv % in his UFA year to back up Hiller who was making 4.5M . Do you think there was a bidding war for Ramo?

Talbot was #5 in the league in sv% in his 36 games with the Rangers.

This year he is #17 ..... did his goalie skills desert him at age 28? ... or just maybe the Rangers play better team defense than the Oilers.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

You'd think anyone would be able to figure out that our goals against is horrible because of terrible goaltending. Ricardodw? He chalks it up to us not wanting to play defence.

LOLOL. I can't figure out if he's the most successful troll of all time or if he's really that clueless about the NHL.

It's both. This team is terrible in the defensive zone as well. Sort of a symptom of Hartley entire defensive strategy being "get in the way".

[Enoch Root]

Last year (same system, same D core), the Flames were 16th in GA, and gave up slightly less than the average amount of goals (213 vs an avg of 218)

This year, they are 30th in GA. Same system, pretty much the same team.

So what has changed?

There is no question that goaltending is a huge part of it. Hiller just isn't the same guy he was last year.

And Ramo started terribly. But when he started playing better, the Flames GA was more normal.

Then he got hurt and the GAA went up again.

It isn't all goaltending, but that's the #1 factor.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It might... but playing this exciting high offense hockey might make it impossible for any goalie to be successful compared to the rest of the league.

Is Ortio a bad goalie? Or is a .900 sv % inherent with this team's style of play?

The Flames will have to get a lot better on team defense before they bring up Gillies... or they will ruin him quickly like they did with Ortio.


The Flames had to pay 3.8M for UFA Ramo who was #33 in Sv % in his UFA year to back up Hiller who was making 4.5M . Do you think there was a bidding war for Ramo?

Talbot was #5 in the league in sv% in his 36 games with the Rangers.

This year he is #17 ..... did his goalie skills desert him at age 28? ... or just maybe the Rangers play better team defense than the Oilers.

Ortio isn't a bad goalie, but at this point it looks like Karri Ramo is the absolute best case scenario for his career.

I think $3.8 for Ramo was a combination reward for his play last season and a small premium in case he had to be traded at a moment's notice due to losing the goalie battle. Regardless, Karri Ramo making $3.8M didn't hurt us at any point this season. The goalies let in 4 goals in almost half the games before Christmas. That's on them.

When it comes to who is a good goalie and who isn't, you have to look beyond the numbers and look at the quality of the goals allowed. Hiller lets in a TON of low quality chances that an NHL regular should stop 100% of the time. Ramo and Ortio are better, but they're still prone to a softie every other game at least.

Finally, last year Hiller had a save % of .918 in 52 games last season. Ramo had a save % of .912 in 34 games. Given this, I don't know how you could argue .900 is "inherent to the way this team plays defence".

Having $11M tied up in 5/6/7 D might be a better indication of why the blue line isn't as good as it was hyped - as I've said before, when the bottom pair combines to make less than Deryk Engelland, this looks like a different team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It is very interesting the alternative universe you have chosen for yourself.


Calgary #10 in the league in goals scored. #1 in the league in goals given up.

Originally Posted by codynw

Could the terrible goaltending have anything to do with that?

Originally Posted by Poe969

You could have the best 6 defenders in NHL history in their prime as defenders but if I'm in net, the other team is going to score a lot. This year the Flames had goal tending that would be just above what someone from CP could do. The team let in so many goals because the goal tending was the worst in the league by far. Wasn't the Flames save% the lowest in the league? That really shows that the goalies were the issue, not the D. And as for the D playing bad, when so many bad goals go in it makes the D look bad. You can't expect the team to not allow a single shot every game and that's the only way you could have improved the goal tending this year.

Plus, IMO the D looks a lot tighter with Nakladal and Jokipakka (and the couple Wotherspoon games FWIW). I'd like to see the defensive stats over that period.

IMO second go-round Ortio looked better than second go-round Ramo, other than Ramo's little spurt of good play right after he came back. Jut before his injury he was regressing in play a bit (not to pre-demotion levels or anything). Ramo is not in the cards for this team. I don't trust Reimer myself. But I could give him a shot if the price-tag for an Andersen is too high.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

I like how being 10th in the league for GF unequivocally means that the team sacrificed all defensive play to get to that level. There is no other explanation, it's just how it is. Ricardo's probably responsible for 2% of all the posts on this website, it's so funny watching threads blow up after he smears them.

[GioforPM]

I agree goalies want to start, above all other considerations (well financial of course, but being a starter sort of assume a raise from being a backup).

Look at Hiller coming to Calgary - an expected lottery team.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Ortio isn't a bad goalie, but at this point it looks like Karri Ramo is the absolute best case scenario for his career.

I think $3.8 for Ramo was a combination reward for his play last season and a small premium in case he had to be traded at a moment's notice due to losing the goalie battle. Regardless, Karri Ramo making $3.8M didn't hurt us at any point this season. The goalies let in 4 goals in almost half the games before Christmas. That's on them.

When it comes to who is a good goalie and who isn't, you have to look beyond the numbers and look at the quality of the goals allowed. Hiller lets in a TON of low quality chances that an NHL regular should stop 100% of the time. Ramo and Ortio are better, but they're still prone to a softie every other game at least.

Finally, last year Hiller had a save % of .918 in 52 games last season. Ramo had a save % of .912 in 34 games. Given this, I don't know how you could argue .900 is "inherent to the way this team plays defence".

Having $11M tied up in 5/6/7 D might be a better indication of why the blue line isn't as good as it was hyped - as I've said before, when the bottom pair combines to make less than Deryk Engelland, this looks like a different team.

Interesting stats on the soft goals (if they existed) .

It would also be interesting on how many "soft" goals go in on lack of defensive effort, not forcing the guy wide enough, leaving the zone too quick, not contesting the rebound, coming out of the corner unimpeded.

Hamilton is playing as advertised over March. 10 games 10 pts. Everyone would be happy and amazed if that is the level he plays at.

On how many highlights of Flames goals against is Hamilton on the ice but not in the play. He is not getting beaten but has not worked to get into position.


He still is only +1 in March..... the secondary players that he get matched up against are playing him even up one-on-one.

Engelland, still rated as a pile of crap pylon, is playing the exact same ice time as Hamilton and is +2.

How come the goalies are that much better with Brodie on the ice to the tune of +14. Brodie has the skill to play the up-tempo game and does not play lazy in his own zone. He works his butt off and gets back into position when the puck is turned over.

Defense is work and this year the Flames are not working near as hard as they did last year.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

LOLOL. I can't figure out if he's the most successful troll of all time or if he's really that clueless about the NHL.

I would lean heavily towards the latter.
No troll would spend that amount of time accumulating irrelevant statistics.

[blankall]

Taking on Bishop could be really risky. With the new equipment regulations coming into force, goalies like him will suffer the most.

[foshizzle11]

I picked Ben Bishop but I don't think we will land him. I think the Flames will want someone younger and go with Anderson or Raanta instead. I think Bishop gives us the best opportunity to be successful. All of these guys have been in winning environments and I wouldn't be disappointed with any of them. Hopefully the price isn't too steep for any of these guys. I think Bishop will end up being the most expensive piece as well. With the expansion draft coming up, how do we keep Gillies and whoever we sign this offseason? Not really sure how that all plays out.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Still don't get the Reimer love.. Guys been on a losing Leafs team his entire career and was never a difference maker... Suddenly he's going to be that for Calgary? ... Yikes poor guy will be the new whipping boy..

Kipper lost a lot of games in Calgary too whats your point


Reimer has been lights out in SJ...in a playoff race I might add

[gunnner]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Last year (same system, same D core), the Flames were 16th in GA, and gave up slightly less than the average amount of goals (213 vs an avg of 218)

This year, they are 30th in GA. Same system, pretty much the same team.

So what has changed?

There is no question that goaltending is a huge part of it. Hiller just isn't the same guy he was last year.

And Ramo started terribly. But when he started playing better, the Flames GA was more normal.

Then he got hurt and the GAA went up again.

It isn't all goaltending, but that's the #1 factor.

I would suggest Russel Wideman and Gio all played much better in their own end last year than this year. Pretty much same team as last year, but we played much better D last year.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Poe969

You could have the best 6 defenders in NHL history in their prime as defenders but if I'm in net, the other team is going to score a lot. This year the Flames had goal tending that would be just above what someone from CP could do. The team let in so many goals because the goal tending was the worst in the league by far. Wasn't the Flames save% the lowest in the league? That really shows that the goalies were the issue, not the D. And as for the D playing bad, when so many bad goals go in it makes the D look bad. You can't expect the team to not allow a single shot every game and that's the only way you could have improved the goal tending this year.

exactly...Calgary is pretty good when it comes to shots against...12th or something overall last I checked.

[dino7c]

ask yourself has goal tending cost the flames 5 or 6 wins this year?

I would say yes for sure maybe even more, add 12 points in the standings...things would be really fun around here ATM

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by blankall

Taking on Bishop could be really risky. With the new equipment regulations coming into force, goalies like him will suffer the most.

I feel like the idea that the goalies will have to be more reactionary and athletic is more of a hope than it is a realistic prediction. No matter what you do to equipment, goalies are still gonna play the angles first and let the puck hit them. Bishop's size advantage might be even more pronounced if small guys can't use their equipment to bulk up.

[Point Blank]

Lol Ricardodw, brings up an argument saying that no UFA would sign here, then completely switches to his obsession with Hamilton as soon as he gets wrecked in the previous argument. Typical. What a troll

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Last year (same system, same D core), the Flames were 16th in GA, and gave up slightly less than the average amount of goals (213 vs an avg of 218)

This year, they are 30th in GA. Same system, pretty much the same team.

So what has changed?

There is no question that goaltending is a huge part of it. Hiller just isn't the same guy he was last year.

And Ramo started terribly. But when he started playing better, the Flames GA was more normal.

Then he got hurt and the GAA went up again.

It isn't all goaltending, but that's the #1 factor.

To add to your post (just posted this in another thread but makes more sense here):

This season (even strength)
High Danger Scoring Chances Against/60 Mins: 11.4
Goals Against/Game: 2.01

Last season (even strength)
High Danger Scoring Chances Against/60 Mins: 11.7
Goals Against/Game: 1.88

This team is allowing fewer high danger scoring chances than last season. But significantly more goals on the chances they do allow.

I think I should repeat this. This team is allowing fewer high quality chances against than last season.

Given that the Flames have scored about the same amount as last season, average goaltending would put this team in playoff contention (which is exactly what happened last year). There have been team d breakdowns for sure but this team was sunk by their goalies.