The New American Politics thread

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Buster

Nonsense.

Dichotomies can be useful, as policy decisions can regularly be reduced to dichotomies: do we raise taxes or lower taxes, do we make the government bigger or smaller.

These two examples seem like particularly terrible ways to analyze a policy decision.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's really awful. If I was a hardcore Sanders supporter, the fact that I am being hectored by the likes of Sarah Silverman and Seth Myers would almost be enough to lead me to putting a Trump sign on my lawn. That type of liberal elitism is exactly what turns off people from voting Democrat.

Being spoken down to is never an enjoyable feeling - must be less so if it's being done by SNL alumni.

Ditto the BS with Lena Dunham and America Ferrera. I get all of their points, but chastising me like I don't?

The DNC has some great speakers no doubt but this is taking it too far.

"I'll vote for Trump because he didnt chastise me". Such weird reasoning.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Three schools of thought on Trump's utterly insane (even by his standards) half day:

1) He's once again trying as hard as possible to deflect anything tax related. So keep pushing the buttons to switch focus.

2) He's having a meltdown because the DNC is outrating the RNC, proving he's not a ratings star like he loves to brag about.

3) He knows he could get destroyed tonight by Biden and Obama, so he's getting out in front to make today all about him in other ways.

[nik-]

Big Government/Small Government is such a bull#### argument and stance.

Small Government doesn't exist. It's just big government targeting and controlling different things. How the hell can a right wing voter have the gall to extort the virtues of small government while desiring government restrictions on who can marry who and who can get abortions.

Useless buzz words. Stop getting hooked by that ####ty lure.

[2Stonedbirds]

"Now listen here kids, don't go out and smoke dope cuz it will make you dumb and it's bad and it's illegal and it's bad and I said so and it's bad."

"**** you dad, Imma go smoke dope."

Reasoning and rationale hardly rule the roost when you are being told you are too dumb to make your own choices.

[HotHotHeat]

Messy NYT Link

Donald J. Trump said Wednesday that he hoped Russia had hacked Hillary Clinton’s email, essentially encouraging an adversarial foreign power’s cyberspying on a secretary of state’s correspondence.

“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said, staring directly into the cameras. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

America deserves this guy.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Three schools of thought on Trump's utterly insane (even by his standards) half day:

1) He's once again trying as hard as possible to deflect anything tax related. So keep pushing the buttons to switch focus.

2) He's having a meltdown because the DNC is outrating the RNC, proving he's not a ratings star like he loves to brag about.

3) He knows he could get destroyed tonight by Biden and Obama, so he's getting out in front to make today all about him in other ways.

I'll give you my school of thought: he just cannot stay out of his own way and is constantly being played by the Clinton campaign. 'Damaging stuff just came out about us? Let's say something about Trump and Russia that he can't help responding to, and he'll probably say something awful and embarrassing that will take the heat off of us.'

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Izzle

"I'll vote for Trump because he didnt chastise me". Such weird reasoning.

It's who's doing the chastising. Stop calling people stupid.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's who's doing the chastising. Stop calling people stupid.

Celebrities?

It'$$$ not like $HILLary is berating people like a testy grandma.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by nik-

Big Government/Small Government is such a bull#### argument and stance.

Small Government doesn't exist. It's just big government targeting and controlling different things. How the hell can a right wing voter have the gall to extort the virtues of small government while desiring government restrictions on who can marry who and who can get abortions.

Useless buzz words. Stop getting hooked by that ####ty lure.

Maybe because all right wingers don't want to restrict marriage and ban abortion.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Maybe because all right wingers don't want to restrict marriage and ban abortion.

Well then they should read the Republican Platform that was published like what, 2 weeks ago?

[Buster]

Originally Posted by Makarov

These two examples seem like particularly terrible ways to analyze a policy decision.

I'm sure you could come up with all sorts of examples of decisions that can be reduced to dichotomies.

- Invade Iraq. Or not
- bomb a building in Yemen, or not.
- support the nomination of X candidate for the supreme court. Or not.


etc etc.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Maybe because all right wingers don't want to restrict marriage and ban abortion.

The party does.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's who's doing the chastising. Stop calling people stupid.

Suppose it wasnt uttered by Lena Dunham or America Ferrara, but by Tim Kaine, Cory Booker or Julian Castro... would that change anything? Words are still being used to chastise, but its by prominent Dems? Does the argument then become "liberal elites are chastising us, I vote Trump".

Its frustrating that these Berners are plugging their ears and crying foul. I doubt they'd listen to reason. Might as well shame them cos they're being stupid.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I'll give you my school of thought: he just cannot stay out of his own way and is constantly being played by the Clinton campaign. 'Damaging stuff just came out about us? Let's say something about Trump and Russia that he can't help responding to, and he'll probably say something awful and embarrassing that will take the heat off of us.'

I can't wait for the debates. Hillary will work him like a brainless puppet.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

@ 2Stonebirds
I saw a video highlighting this. There appeared to be thousands of empty seats. No mention of this in the mainstream news outlets though that I have seen.

I was listening to/watching the NPR/PBS coverage of the DNC last night and they very much brought this to attention repeatedly. I also saw it mentioned at least on CBS' coverage earlier in the day, though I wasn't watching them for primetime, so perhaps they didn't then.

No less coverage of this walkout than the walkout at the RNC last week.

If the media was really all that liberal--don't you think Bernie Sanders would've gotten more attention than he did? Wouldn't CNN etc have given him the kind of press they handed off to Trump, if they really had this strong liberal agenda? He was the most liberal candidate.

Originally Posted by Buster

Nonsense.

Dichotomies can be useful, as policy decisions can regularly be reduced to dichotomies: do we raise taxes or lower taxes, do we make the government bigger or smaller.

Is it useful to view the world exclusively with ONE dichotomy/spectrum? No.

But spectra can be useful to analyze all sorts of issues.

Not even close, because you have Tea Party social/economic conservatives who want small government re: taxes/gun laws, but big government re: LGBT rights and women's rights. You have libertarians who go right with economic policy but left on social issues. You have liberals who support a social safety net and universal health care but want the government to respect privacy more.

Most tax policy changes come with some groups having their taxes raised and others having theirs lowered. Politics isn't a black/white zero sum game. It's a million different shades of grey.

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's who's doing the chastising. Stop calling people stupid.

So liberals are calling people stupid, but Trump and the GOP are basically claiming that the left/Dems hate America.

Both sides are chastising for different reasons.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Good news for Trump first....

The average American's views of Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton have converged for the first time in Gallup's yearlong tracking of the images of the two candidates, with Americans giving each exactly the same favorable and unfavorable ratings. The numbers for both candidates, based on interviewing conducted July 18-25, are 37% favorable and 58% unfavorable. In all previous Gallup updates stretching back to last July, Clinton's net favorable has been higher than Trump's.

...but the bad news: Once again looking up at that loser Romney. Pathetic!

Trump's image may be improving compared with Clinton's, but historically speaking, Americans' self-reports about the GOP convention's impact are mediocre.

For example, Trump's speech got the least positive reviews of any speech we have tested after the fact: 35% of Americans interviewed last weekend said it was excellent or good. Of the nine previous speeches we have rated, the top one was Barack Obama's in August 2008, which 58% of Americans rated as excellent or good. The lowest-rated speech other than Trump's was Mitt Romney's in 2012, with 38% excellent or good.

The self-reported net impact of the GOP convention was also negative. Overall, 51% of Americans say the convention made them less likely to vote for Trump, while 36% said it made them more likely to vote for him. This is the highest "less likely to vote" percentage for a candidate in the 15 times Gallup has asked this question after a convention. The previous "less likely" high was 38% after both conventions in 2012, and after the GOP conventions in 2004 and 2008.

http://www.gallup.com/opinion/pollin...r-clinton.aspx

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

If the media was really all that liberal--don't you think Bernie Sanders would've gotten more attention than he did? Wouldn't CNN etc have given him the kind of press they handed off to Trump, if they really had this strong liberal agenda? He was the most liberal candidate.

No, because Sanders doesn't say inflammatory statements like Trump.

Trump stays in the news because his mouth dictates it.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Izzle

Suppose it wasnt uttered by Lena Dunham or America Ferrara, but by Tim Kaine, Cory Booker or Julian Castro... would that change anything? Words are still being used to chastise, but its by prominent Dems? Does the argument then become "liberal elites are chastising us, I vote Trump".

Its frustrating that these Berners are plugging their ears and crying foul. I doubt they'd listen to reason. Might as well shame them cos they're being stupid.

yes it would.

But in general don't have people on the conventions stage shame people and don't call them stupid. Don't stoop to Trumps level.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Makarov

These two examples seem like particularly terrible ways to analyze a policy decision.

I think maybe I'd choose to vote conservative if these are my options.