Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Slava

Love that first line because it's not condescending at all. Just that I should vote the same as you do, because my ego is too big? Come on.

But more to the heart of the matter is this line. They will assuredly be worse for me and my taxes. That's actually my main dislike of them. The disingenuous "tax the rich* and corporations". Sounds great because no one thinks they're rich. Then they define rich at some obviously middle class level, and it costs a pile of us more money. Same kind of thing with corporations. It sounds great because that sounds like it's going to be massive corporations and "they'll hardly notice". But in reality, most of the corporations are small businesses and "just taxing" us isn't unnoticed. It actually all comes from the same wallet!



So look at real policies and ignore the constitution? That's amusing.

I've already said that I might end up voting for the NDP, and I am coming to grips with that. But, I know that I'm going to regret that, and I'm not sure why no one else here seems to want to admit that.

But maybe you should pay more taxes?

Look around you, at all the #### going on that your taxes pay for. Just like businesses, they've also all had their costs go up, so the logic that taxes stay the same doesn't make too much sense especially given we have pretty clear signals that our health care can't handle any stress on the system or we have to shut down society. Take a look at our education levels, have you talked to a young person lately? They're idiots.

Like, maybe you should pay more taxes so that you can continue to live in one of the top cities (literally, out of thousands and thousands) on Earth.

And I'm kind of a right leaning guy, but the hesitation to any tax increase seems myopic, short-sighted, selfish and a bit disconnected to me.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Slava

But, I know that I'm going to regret that, and I'm not sure why no one else here seems to want to admit that.

You can't seem to identify directly why you would regret voting for the NDP. If you can't tell us why you want to support the UCP but wont, can you at least tell us clearly why you would regret voting for NDP?

It seems like it's 100% money in your pocket by what you have laid out. Just want to clarify that.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Wow that sounds like a large contingent. Best of luck.

In your world, knowing any actual intelligent, educated people would be a massive life milestone for you, so keep reaching for that rainbow!

Also, how's Take Back Alberta? You guys still protesting non-existent lockdowns and harassing people wearing masks? Don't forget to check if you still qualify for the Trudeau-funded EI, need that sweet sweet dinero to pay for your Monster energy drinks and Oakleys.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Wow that sounds like a large contingent. Best of luck.

Surely it is larger than the quantity of brain cells within your skull wildly fighting for air time like western standard reporters at Ezra's house.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Slava

Love that first line because it's not condescending at all. Just that I should vote the same as you do, because my ego is too big? Come on.

But more to the heart of the matter is this line. They will assuredly be worse for me and my taxes. That's actually my main dislike of them. The disingenuous "tax the rich* and corporations". Sounds great because no one thinks they're rich. Then they define rich at some obviously middle class level, and it costs a pile of us more money. Same kind of thing with corporations. It sounds great because that sounds like it's going to be massive corporations and "they'll hardly notice". But in reality, most of the corporations are small businesses and "just taxing" us isn't unnoticed. It actually all comes from the same wallet!

The UCP never lowered taxes for the middle class or small businesses that you’re claiming to be concerned about.

While we’re on the subject of corporate taxes, do you by any chance claim any business expenses that reduce the amount of taxes you pay?

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

But maybe you should pay more taxes?

Look around you, at all the #### going on that your taxes pay for. Just like businesses, they've also all had their costs go up, so the logic that taxes stay the same doesn't make too much sense especially given we have pretty clear signals that our health care can't handle any stress on the system or we have to shut down society. Take a look at our education levels, have you talked to a young person lately? They're idiots.

Like, maybe you should pay more taxes so that you can continue to live in one of the top cities (literally, out of thousands and thousands) on Earth.

And I'm kind of a right leaning guy, but the hesitation to any tax increase seems myopic, short-sighted, selfish and a bit disconnected to me.

I am totally guilty of doing exactly this, but IMO this is the largest problem with the "centrist" "socially liberal but fiscally conservative" crowd. I am one of them. But it doesn't make sense- we need to pay for social liberties in a lot of ways. We can't do that without raising taxes. IMO the fiscally conservative part should come through massive transparency and careful spending, not through abhorrence of any sort of taxes or social spending. You can't pretend to care about people then just cheap out on doing it. At least be honest if you're going to do it that way- cut the #### and don't pretend you care about social matters. Just admit that money is the only thing that matters to you so people can see you for who you are.

[Cube Inmate]

Some people simply want to be able to say "not my fault, I voted for Kodos." That's probably how Alberta Party got my vote once or twice in the past but this time the binary choice is stark: an adult who acknowledges reality vs. a childish, conspiracy-addled, and incompetent (i don't have clemency power???) person.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

But maybe you should pay more taxes?

Look around you, at all the #### going on that your taxes pay for. Just like businesses, they've also all had their costs go up, so the logic that taxes stay the same doesn't make too much sense especially given we have pretty clear signals that our health care can't handle any stress on the system or we have to shut down society. Take a look at our education levels, have you talked to a young person lately? They're idiots.

Like, maybe you should pay more taxes so that you can continue to live in one of the top cities (literally, out of thousands and thousands) on Earth.

And I'm kind of a right leaning guy, but the hesitation to any tax increase seems myopic, short-sighted, selfish and a bit disconnected to me.

Children are being treated in trailers after 24 hour waits in the emergency room, many of the unhoused are becoming increasingly more unstable and violent, the school system is more concerned with positive education about nazis and banning clubs than class sizes… and that’s apparently just fine in some people’s books.

“Not worth a dollar more from me, thanks! I’ve paid my share!”

[burn_this_city]

These things always boil down to willingness to let the world burn to avoid paying taxes.

[Muta]

Would have been nice to have that $1.4B to spend on affordable/supportive housing around the province right now; lord knows we need it in the most dire way. Hell, throw the majority of the proposed south Edmonton hospital into that same number. But nope, that money has gone far into the ether, much like the majority of the UCP's fiscal decisions. Must be nice to gamble (our money, no less) with a ten-figure amount like it's pixie dust.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

But maybe you should pay more taxes?

Look around you, at all the #### going on that your taxes pay for. Just like businesses, they've also all had their costs go up, so the logic that taxes stay the same doesn't make too much sense especially given we have pretty clear signals that our health care can't handle any stress on the system or we have to shut down society. Take a look at our education levels, have you talked to a young person lately? They're idiots.

Like, maybe you should pay more taxes so that you can continue to live in one of the top cities (literally, out of thousands and thousands) on Earth.

And I'm kind of a right leaning guy, but the hesitation to any tax increase seems myopic, short-sighted, selfish and a bit disconnected to me.

Serious question though, does money solve these things? I look at our neighbor to the west who pay higher taxes than we do here, and frankly they're dealing with the exact same issues. It's extremely complicated.

And truthfully, I pay a lot of taxes. I think I'm pretty firmly average, and middle class. It's not some scheme where I have a super high income and at the same time have a 15% marginal tax rate. I wish! So every level of government is "only adding a couple percent" and the next thing you know your taxes are up 10%, and there's only one taxpayer.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Slava

Serious question though, does money solve these things? I look at our neighbor to the west who pay higher taxes than we do here, and frankly they're dealing with the exact same issues. It's extremely complicated.

And truthfully, I pay a lot of taxes. I think I'm pretty firmly average, and middle class. It's not some scheme where I have a super high income and at the same time have a 15% marginal tax rate. I wish! So every level of government is "only adding a couple percent" and the next thing you know your taxes are up 10%, and there's only one taxpayer.

They pay higher taxes in part because they get much less royalty money.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Just hope the UCP keeps the own goals coming, and make it blatantly obvious to majority of Calgarians throughout the whole city that the UCP is not fit to govern, and vote for the NDP.

Many Calgarians may not like them, but status quo is by far the worst option. We need the most competent option.

Don't hold your breath. Calgarian Lemmings gave Kenney a majority gov't! Jason effing Kenney!!!!!!!!!

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Slava

Serious question though, does money solve these things? I look at our neighbor to the west who pay higher taxes than we do here, and frankly they're dealing with the exact same issues. It's extremely complicated.

And truthfully, I pay a lot of taxes. I think I'm pretty firmly average, and middle class. It's not some scheme where I have a super high income and at the same time have a 15% marginal tax rate. I wish! So every level of government is "only adding a couple percent" and the next thing you know your taxes are up 10%, and there's only one taxpayer.

It's a good question and I dunno, I'm not an expert. I am certain there can and should be cuts to various levels of bureaucracy, and I'm sure there's tons of efficiencies that can be found by cleaning out old middle managers in some of these systems that are operating in protectionist fashion and unwilling to make changes, and then convincing everybody around them that no changes can or should take place. I am sure all of that is all true, and should be looked at. One example I can think of, using Nurse Practitioners instead of letting Doctors pretend they can't provide prescriptions or have no value; even though they obviously do. So yeah, work to be done on various issues with a competent leader that has some courage to make tough decisions and not just protect their group(s).

But you actually don't really pay that much taxes, relative to the demands our society has for the services. So it's just a function of if you're willing to let a pandemic shut down society for months and months (vs. maybe less), wait times of exorbitant length to get any care, potholes in roads, poor education systems and crumbling infrastructure. There's a lot of #### to pay for. I had a friend who's kid got cancer. Prior to the kid getting cancer, kind of sang the same tune, don't want increased taxes, etc. After kid gets cancer, all good! Knows that the insane amount of costs that went into saving his child's life- he will never, ever, pay back those equivalent values in care. Doctors are leaving, teachers probably need a raise at some point, ditto for nurses- gotta compete for wages with other jurisdictions.

There will always be a struggle and a dialogue to be had with what's the perfect taxation amount. Taxes never seem to go down either, which is a problem too. But after coming out the back end of COVID-19; I'm just not sure I can rationalize not increasing taxes or adjusting funding levels to health care and education. So, maybe you should pay more taxes, or consider it.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

They pay higher taxes in part because they get much less royalty money.

Royalties has nothing to do with it. NDP even went down that road and it was determined that the royalty rate was good.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Royalties has nothing to do with it. NDP even went down that road and it was determined that the royalty rate was good.

I think we aren't talking about the same thing. Slava's post was about BC paying higher taxes and getting the same services. I said BC pays higher taxes in part because they get less money from royalties than AB.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think we aren't talking about the same thing. Slava's post was about BC paying higher taxes and getting the same services. I said BC pays higher taxes in part because they get less money from royalties than AB.

sorry my bad. You are correct I thought we were talking about Alberta. Nothing to see here, carry on. These aren't the dronds you are looking for.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Robbob

sorry my bad. You are correct I thought we were talking about Alberta. Nothing to see here, carry on. These aren't the dronds you are looking for.

No stress.

[PepsiFree]

Money doesn’t solve anything. Only hopes and prayers.

[PsYcNeT]

I'm 90% sure anyone who is still definitively voting UCP is more Socially Conservative than Fiscally Conservative at this juncture.