Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

CBC’s headline tomorrow should be “We Double Dare You, Dumbass”

Or as Smith said to Trudeau…”double dog dare you”

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Izzle

If Slava is the typical Calgary voter then the UCP will win. Not because they voted for them. But that they voted for whatever rhino, donkey or zebra party exists so that they can hold their nose high and say they've not voted for the extreme left wing socialist party despite much evidence to the contrary.

This is unfortunately true and likely to come to fruition.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Torture

And yet, somewhere on the internet, somebody is arguing that the UCP are a bunch of fiscal conservatives.

Did you mean to say right in this thread?

The socialist left vs the fiscally conservative right!!!! *the right spends the same or more but on rich people and cooperations instead of education/health care/social services

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by jayswin

This is unfortunately true and likely to come to fruition.

Maybe it’s as simple as Alberta voters don’t trust a Premier who is a lap dog to the policies of the Federal NDP/Liberal alliance and want someone in power with Alberta’s best interest.

[Cappy]

As opposed to a lap dog of some shady right wing, socially conservative group who have effectively eliminated all sensible conservatives from its membership?

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Maybe it’s as simple as Alberta voters don’t trust a Premier who is a lap dog to the policies of the Federal NDP/Liberal alliance and want someone in power with Alberta’s best interest.

This basically why I’m voting for Danielle Smith and the UCP.

Time and time again they have proven that they have my best interests at heart. They are definitely not a bunch of grifters (unlike the NDP) who only care about their own party and friends.

I mean like that leaked call between Notley and Singh basically proves your point! On top of the countless other sound bites and videos of Notley with asinine comments about dismantling healthcare, no longer requiring family doctor, etc.

Vote UCP!

[puffnstuff]

Curious what specific policies the ucp has that appeal to folks saying they will vote for them.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Izzle

If Slava is the typical Calgary voter then the UCP will win. Not because they voted for them. But that they voted for whatever rhino, donkey or zebra party exists so that they can hold their nose high and say they've not voted for the extreme left wing socialist party despite much evidence to the contrary.

Originally Posted by jayswin

This is unfortunately true and likely to come to fruition.

At what point am I absolved for voting for who I choose and it's incumbent on the NDP to cater to the disaffected centrist voters?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Curious what specific policies the ucp has that appeal to folks saying they will vote for them.

I suspect the most important policy is at the top of their platform document.
Specifically the blue header.

Not any words in that header, just the fact that it's blue.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Curious what specific policies the ucp has that appeal to folks saying they will vote for them.

Pretty sure it’s the wishing to be able to grant clemency for Covid-related charges policy is the big one.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Maybe it’s as simple as Alberta voters don’t trust a Premier who is a lap dog to the policies of the Federal NDP/Liberal alliance and want someone in power with Alberta’s best interest.

Can't wait to vote for a competent Premier in Notley; almost all my friends and coworkers will be too. And we're all spreading the word. Smith is a lunatic who has corporations and criminals in her best interests; not the majority of Albertans.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by Slava

At what point am I absolved for voting for who I choose and it's incumbent on the NDP to cater to the disaffected centrist voters?

Probably when you drop your ego and realize that there are only two parties in Alberta that could form government. In effect, not voting for the NDP is de facto voting for the UCP and vice versa. Perhaps listen to your fellow Albertans in this thread who have given numerous examples of why the UCP is terrible and vote for the NDP in solidarity with them. Sure, NDP might be bad for you from a tax perspective but they're genuinely trying to help all Albertans as opposed to only their friends. Slava, this might feel like piling on, but believe you me, if you were Yoho, I wouldn't be wasting time typing out a response. You're so close to voting for the NDP. It could be a very unselfish vote if you do.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Slava

At what point am I absolved for voting for who I choose and it's incumbent on the NDP to cater to the disaffected centrist voters?

If you can justify your vote based on a real evaluation of policy proposals and previous government behaviours without using things like the NDP party constitution and the mid characterizing of appointments and come to the conclusion that the UCP is better for you.

And you should be able to name specific policies that would need to be adopted or changed that prevent you from voting for them.

Then you can be absolved. To date (not that you owe it to CP) you have not provided that rationalization.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Slava

At what point am I absolved for voting for who I choose and it's incumbent on the NDP to cater to the disaffected centrist voters?

The NDP are catering to the centrist voter. Based on all of your comments and responses, you are not a centrist voter. You are a right wing voter that has no use for the stupidity of the UCP. You really aren't looking for a centrist party, you are looking for a party that is central between the NDP and UCP, which is firmly on the right, and maybe even just right/centre.

I honestly agree with you that you shouldn't feel this force to vote for the NDP that you don't like. You seem smart enough to realize that a vote for anyone else is a vote for the UCP and you seem ok with that.

There shouldn't be any shame voting for who you choose. But really, you need to get over the point that you are a centrist, because you really don't portray one on here.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Izzle

Probably when you drop your ego and realize that there are only two parties in Alberta that could form government. In effect, not voting for the NDP is de facto voting for the UCP and vice versa. Perhaps listen to your fellow Albertans in this thread who have given numerous examples of why the UCP is terrible and vote for the NDP in solidarity with them. Sure, NDP might be bad for you from a tax perspective but they're genuinely trying to help all Albertans as opposed to only their friends. Slava, this might feel like piling on, but believe you me, if you were Yoho, I wouldn't be wasting time typing out a response. You're so close to voting for the NDP. It could be a very unselfish vote if you do.

Love that first line because it's not condescending at all. Just that I should vote the same as you do, because my ego is too big? Come on.

But more to the heart of the matter is this line. They will assuredly be worse for me and my taxes. That's actually my main dislike of them. The disingenuous "tax the rich* and corporations". Sounds great because no one thinks they're rich. Then they define rich at some obviously middle class level, and it costs a pile of us more money. Same kind of thing with corporations. It sounds great because that sounds like it's going to be massive corporations and "they'll hardly notice". But in reality, most of the corporations are small businesses and "just taxing" us isn't unnoticed. It actually all comes from the same wallet!

Originally Posted by GGG

If you can justify your vote based on a real evaluation of policy proposals and previous government behaviours without using things like the NDP party constitution and the mid characterizing of appointments and come to the conclusion that the UCP is better for you.

And you should be able to name specific policies that would need to be adopted or changed that prevent you from voting for them.

Then you can be absolved. To date (not that you owe it to CP) you have not provided that rationalization.

So look at real policies and ignore the constitution? That's amusing.

I've already said that I might end up voting for the NDP, and I am coming to grips with that. But, I know that I'm going to regret that, and I'm not sure why no one else here seems to want to admit that.

[Muta]

Slava, here's what I would do if I were you - vote for Rachel, she's the lesser of two evils, actually cares about people and the party is completely centrist now (not left) - but if you can't vote for the NDP, just don't vote this time. That is one less vote for the UCP, and that's better than holding your nose and voting for them.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Muta

Can't wait to vote for a competent Premier in Notley; almost all my friends and coworkers will be too. And we're all spreading the word. Smith is a lunatic who has corporations and criminals in her best interests; not the majority of Albertans.

Wow that sounds like a large contingent. Best of luck.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

Love that first line because it's not condescending at all. Just that I should vote the same as you do, because my ego is too big? Come on.

.…

But, I know that I'm going to regret that, and I'm not sure why no one else here seems to want to admit that.

Maybe the ego thing comes from the last line where you assume a bunch of other people here think the same as you but are too afraid to admit it?

It could be that people have actually taken a rational evaluation of the situation and concluded that they would be quite happy with the NDP, even if their centre-right neo-liberal beliefs aren’t *perfectly* represented.

Either way, I’m not sure why you keep entering an argument you have no interest in learning or gaining anything from, just to repeat the same things over and over again. Genuinely curious, why? If voting NDP is so tough for you, why don’t you just vote Alberta Party and stop demanding people convince you why you should vote NDP just to tell them they’re wrong and the NDP doesn’t represent you?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Slava

Love that first line because it's not condescending at all. Just that I should vote the same as you do, because my ego is too big? Come on.

But more to the heart of the matter is this line. They will assuredly be worse for me and my taxes. That's actually my main dislike of them. The disingenuous "tax the rich* and corporations". Sounds great because no one thinks they're rich. Then they define rich at some obviously middle class level, and it costs a pile of us more money. Same kind of thing with corporations. It sounds great because that sounds like it's going to be massive corporations and "they'll hardly notice". But in reality, most of the corporations are small businesses and "just taxing" us isn't unnoticed. It actually all comes from the same wallet!



So look at real policies and ignore the constitution? That's amusing.

I've already said that I might end up voting for the NDP, and I am coming to grips with that. But, I know that I'm going to regret that, and I'm not sure why no one else here seems to want to admit that.

Well Ignore your weird hang up that Singh and the Ontario NDP is going to come along and order Alberta to do things and actually read the constitution that the only remedy of the federal party would be to kick out the provincial wing.

I don’t understand the regret part. I’m confident they are better than the alternative. I agree they will do things I don’t like. But voting is rarely about a choice without regret. The other thing it’s easier to tear down things then to build them up. So if the NDP sets up new crowns and expands public service and increases regulation that is relatively easy to strip away. On the other hand once you privatize something or deregulate it’s much tougher to go back. So even if you believe you will regret the choice it’s far easier to recover from then the UCP mistakes.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Slava

But, I know that I'm going to regret that, and I'm not sure why no one else here seems to want to admit that.

1) I legitimately wouldn't regret it
2) But if I did regret the NDP vote, I would take comfort in knowing that I would have regretted a vote for the UCP, a party that has demonstrated they are full of bumbling grifters and far right wing lunatics approximately 10000x more