Alberta PST discussion

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Pretending that Alberta hasn't spent 20-50% more on, on average, than comparable provinces over more than a decade is merely putting your head in the sand. Pretending that government spending hasn't doubled since 2000 with only a 25% increase in population is ridiculous. No data, context or evidence is needed to support what's common knowledge. Telling ourselves that throwing more money at problems that haven't even begun to be solved by throwing more money at them is the very definition of "telling ourselves what we want to hear not actually dealing with problems."

A sales tax is a good idea but only if resource revenues are completely removed from the AB budget. Most Albertans' reject a tax and spend socialist paradise, and having our tax burdens reflect actual spending is a move in the right direction.

Why should all the resource revenue go to future generations?

And history seems to indicate that most Albertans don't share your 'values'.

[darklord700]

Instead of new taxes of any kind, I think a pay per use health care system is long overdue here and elsewhere in Canada.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Why should all the resource revenue go to future generations?

And history seems to indicate that most Albertans don't share your 'values'.

We've already spent over 200 Billion of non-renewable resource revenue in AB so I think maybe some saving for the future would be prudent at this point. Why should all non-renewable resource revenues go to program spending?

Which 'values' are you claiming to understand? Albertans have overwhelmingly supported the PC's whose most consistent policy platform for decades has been low taxation. I don't know how you argue against that.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Instead of new taxes of any kind, I think a pay per use health care system is long overdue here and elsewhere in Canada.

No doubt. We have no idea how expensive free health care is.

[Red]

No PST. They will lust blow it. They couldn't balance a budget with 100+ oil so why would they magically do it with more taxes?
They are wasting our money in most creative ways. Redford's Penthouse already caused the whole building project to go 20 mil over budget and is 4 years behind.
All this construction (province and municipal) happening right now is terrible waste of money. They should have waited for a downturn in economy rather than building everything during a boom for inflated costs. Irresponsible spending, but what do they care. We are getting 25 cents of value each dollar we give them.

Zamboni garage built, but no zamboni coming. Government fiscal oops at its best.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Zambo...901/story.html

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Instead of new taxes of any kind, I think a pay per use health care system is long overdue here and elsewhere in Canada.

Great idea, a fee which affects those who can least afford it the most. No one should ever need to decide whether they either get to eat this week or go see a doctor because they're sick.

Anything that brings us closer to the US style health care is stupid and a complete non starter for me.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Before we institute a PST, I'd like to see the 10% Provincial Income Tax abolished and replaced with something like BC has. Its time all the CP 1%'ers paid their fair share.

......

Spoiler!

I'm not sure how you can get any more fair than everyone paying the same %.

[Huntingwhale]

I'd be in favour of a small sales tax...provided it gets removed once oil prices inevitably again. Would that happen? Of course not. And then when oil inevitably drops again, another tax will get put in place because the precedent will have been set. And the cycle will continue.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Albertans have overwhelmingly supported the PC's whose most consistent policy platform for decades has been low taxation. I don't know how you argue against that.

I'm pretty sure Albertans overwhelmingly support the PCs because they have "conservative" in their name, and because most Albertans don't give a #### about poor people.

[Bunk]

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opini...751/story.html

Pretty balanced editorial on the matter

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I'd be in favour of a small sales tax...provided it gets removed once oil prices inevitably again. Would that happen? Of course not. And then when oil inevitably drops again, another tax will get put in place because the precedent will have been set. And the cycle will continue.

You're identifying the problem - relying on royalties as a stable source of revenue to fund services. It just doesn't work. Taxes should be the cake, royalties the icing.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Great idea, a fee which affects those who can least afford it the most. No one should ever need to decide whether they either get to eat this week or go see a doctor because they're sick.

Anything that brings us closer to the US style health care is stupid and a complete non starter for me.

So closer to North Korea is more in your wheelhouse?

How about the stark reality that mixed private/public systems like those in Europe consistently outperform Canadian healthcare for cheaper.

The US healthcare bogeyman is so overdone it's ridiculous.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Instead of new taxes of any kind, I think a pay per use health care system is long overdue here and elsewhere in Canada.

100% yes. Adding user fees to the healthcare system is desperately needed.

Adding a sales tax will not solve the deficit problem. Just look at every other province as an example. The government will just waste the extra money like they always do. I wouldn't have a big problem if they increased the provincial income tax slightly for income > $100,000. Maybe to 12% from 10%.

Klein had to make some tough decision regarding spending cuts in order to eliminate the debt, the same thing needs to happen now. Though hopefully they won't blow the surpluses this time around.

[troutman]

I don't understand how in a Province with the resource and intellectual wealth that we have, that parents have to work at casinos so children can have books and computers. That patients have to wait five hours in Emergency, or be given a hospital bed in the hallway. That we delay important infrastructure improvements. That we aren't doing more to diversify the economy and lead the way in green energy.

Give me a fair tax with wise spending.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

So closer to North Korea is more in your wheelhouse?

How about the stark reality that mixed private/public systems like those in Europe consistently outperform Canadian healthcare for cheaper.

The US healthcare bogeyman is so overdone it's ridiculous.

How so? they spend by far the most money per capita on healthcare yet have the worst system in the developed world.

And i would love to be North Korea, dibs on being Kim Jung Un.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

Spoiler!

I'm not sure how you can get any more fair than everyone paying the same %.

Well everyone paying the same dollar amount would be there "fair share" but obviously that's not going to make sense either.

Also, people claiming that it's ridiculous that the person making 200k is paying the same amount as the person making 40k is not accurate either. The person making 200k is paying 20k and the person making 40k is paying 4k.

All that being said, I support a 10% HST (easy to implement, no cost to albertans). Not sure how I feel about income tax increases.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by kn

Meanwhile, Norway's Oil Fund (est. 1990) is approaching $1 trillion while the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund (est. 1976) is a measly $17.4 billion.

Yeah, I trust the PCs with more money.

So you're saying you support a sales tax, or at very least more taxes in general. Norway's tax rate is north of 40%.

[darklord700]

I am amazed by the number of people who trusted the PC government with their money. To me, I'm always better at spending my money than the government. This PC government has no accountability at all.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I am amazed by the number of people who trusted the PC government with their money. To me, I'm always better at spending my money than the government. This PC government has no accountability at all.

What does this even mean?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don't understand how in a Province with the resource and intellectual wealth that we have, that parents have to work at casinos so children can have books and computers. That patients have to wait five hours in Emergency, or be given a hospital bed in the hallway. That we delay important infrastructure improvements. That we aren't doing more to diversify the economy and lead the way in green energy.

Give me a fair tax with wise spending.

Instead of taxing individual citizens of Alberta more heavily, I don't understand the aversion to raising the corporate tax rate.

Less than a decade ago it was 15 percent. Now it's 10. The first deficit arrived after the tax rate was lowered from 11 to 10 percent.

Instead of burdening Albertan tax payers who spend most of their income in the province, why not return the tax rate to 15 percent for Alberta's corporate citizens who spend much of their profit outside the province?