Alberta PST discussion

[Drummer]

I hate the idea of Alberta getting a sales tax (if it ever happened), but a fair amount of people I've discussed this with are OK with a temporary one.

What are your thoughts?

[nik-]

My thoughts are that I'd rather a consumption tax than higher income taxes.

It will never be temporary, once that barrier is broken, it's here forever.

[Bunk]

It's not whether we want one or not, it's that we need one.

Quite simply, the "Alberta Advantage" is artificial, we're using volatile royalty revenues to pay for normal operating expenses to support unsustainably low taxes. It's irresponsible and unfair to future generations living in this province.

Now of course the Province should look to reduce spending, including looking at public sector compensation, but that will not be enough to close the structural problem we have.

It will require more taxation revenue - increased income/corporate tax rates, a sales tax, more user fees - very likely all of the above.

I'd like to see the calculation of income tax rate changes and different levels of sales tax (and combinations of both) to gain the amount of revenue we need to essentially replace royalties. Then we should have a principle that royalties only going toward savings, advancing capital projects strategically, reducing any debt and economic diversification.

[Dion]

Eliminate the flat tax and bring in a progressive one.

Reinstate health care premiums.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by Drummer

I hate the idea of Alberta getting a sales tax (if it ever happened), but a fair amount of people I've discussed this with are OK with a temporary one.

What are your thoughts?

Temporary? Yeah right!!

And health care premiums will just fall down the black hole of health spending with no noticeable improvement in quality. Throwing money at the health situation doesn't seem to work anywhere.

[Regulator75]

Just like our income tax was supposed to be temporary. lol

[oilyfan]

A sales tax is better than an income tax increase. Reducing after tax income for individuals is a negative force that is outside the control of the individual. A sales tax on the other hand will alter spending habits, which in most cases is within an individual's control.

[Ozy_Flame]

When the health care premiums were eliminated, Albertans saved roughly 12% equivalent on income taxes (as a reference point). It generated about $1 billion annually. I'm sure a modest PST would generate significantly more than that. Not sure health premiums are the way to go, especially as it pertains to funding health care and not so much other areas of public service.

[stampsx2]

A sales tax will bring out the penny pinchers. People will spend less, businesses will make less and hire less. A pst will just start a line up of city and provincial employee's looking for raises.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

A sales tax is better than an income tax increase. Reducing after tax income for individuals is a negative force that is outside the control of the individual. A sales tax on the other hand will alter spending habits, which in most cases is within an individual's control.

A sales tax will hurt the poor the most and then the middle class. For it to work it would have to be set up like the GST where you can get a quarterly rebate based on your income level.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Dion

A sales tax will hurt the poor the most and then the middle class. For it to work it would have to be set up like the GST where you can get a quarterly rebate based on your income level.

Or just tax non-essential items. If people are spending discretionary income on things then the extra 5% is just factored in when they decide to spend.

[shermanator]

IMO a sales tax is desperately needed.

[Regular_John]

Given how strained our infrastructure and budget are are, it's pretty amazing we've made it this long without one. Some of the stories I hear from parents about the schools their kids go to makes me think "yeah, maybe we should be paying some PST in this province".

However, all of that kind of comes to a head with my general mistrust of the provincial government to handle such extra revenue without pissing it away on sky palaces and private jets.

Yes I know that was "all Redford", but after the Prentice/Smith **** eating grin press conference, I'm kinda thinking "do I really want to pay more taxes for these idiots to blow?"

Soooo yeah. PST... maybe?

[eddly]

There is a shortage of schools in Calgary.

I moved to Calgary in 2012 and lived in Evanston (NW) from 2012 to 2014. The community was started in 2003 or so. It has no schools 12 years later. Brilliant.

Now living in Panorama. One child goes to the local school, the other buses it to a school 30 minutes away...

More school please.

We need more rapid transit here if this is expected to be a major city in Canada.

So yes please, add PST if it helps. Change the 10% flat provincial income tax as well. Start charging people for health premiums. It isn't sustainable to depend on oil royalties forever...

[Kjesse]

Not having a sales tax in Alberta has been a sacred cow for a long time now. That's not to say its the right financial decision.

That this is coming up after the government has effectively dismantled the official opposition should be a massive concern.

The amount of debate in government this issue is going to receive is going to be almost zero. Its going to be a mere decision by Prentice, and while he will consult, its going to be mostly closed-door meetings and private memos and reports. There is no chance this will be properly debated on the floor of the legislature. We should all be concerned about that.

While I (still) like him, I think its more appropriate to refer to him as Chairman Prentice. He is the decider. There are no checks, no balances, this government has complete reign.

[Ozy_Flame]

How about a a provincial sales tax on gasoline only? Prices are so low it might be worth a shot. At least for the short term, and until the base price goes back up to over 100/L.

[Julio]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

How about a a provincial sales tax on gasoline only? Prices are so low it might be worth a shot. At least for the short term, and until the base price goes back up to over 100/L.

There is a 9 cent per litre gas tax in Alberta. Calgary and Edmonton get 5 cents/litre for the gas bought within their borders.
Or do you mean an additional percentage tax?

[kn]

Meanwhile, Norway's Oil Fund (est. 1990) is approaching $1 trillion while the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund (est. 1976) is a measly $17.4 billion.

Yeah, I trust the PCs with more money.

[RedMileDJ]

Originally Posted by eddly

There is a shortage of schools in Calgary.

I moved to Calgary in 2012 and lived in Evanston (NW) from 2012 to 2014. The community was started in 2003 or so. It has no schools 12 years later. Brilliant.

Now living in Panorama. One child goes to the local school, the other buses it to a school 30 minutes away...

More school please.

I'm sorry, but if you move into a community expecting a school to go up, because that's what you were told, then you're dreaming. I don't know if this is your situation, but I honestly laugh at parents and families that buy in these new communities expecting a school to go up.

If you're planning on having children in X amount of year, or already have kids that are close to going to school, then buy into a community that already has established schools. As well, make sure they can get in. Pregnant? Ok, you have 9 months to sell and find a community with an established school.

When you make your top 10 list for a home, schools should be in the top 3. At least it was for us.

I will agree that there is a school shortage. Or at least not enough schools for all the urban sprawl. But there are plenty of communities with schools, to pick from.

Sorry. Not trying to be a jerk.

Back on topic: no PST. Thanks.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Julio

There is a 9 cent per litre gas tax in Alberta. Calgary and Edmonton get 5 cents/litre for the gas bought within their borders.
Or do you mean an additional percentage tax?

Definitely additional tax. I suggest it because if the anticipation is that gas stays relatively low-priced for the short to medium term, a bump up in gas prices wouldn't be a total shock to the system.

A similar idea is like how GST was 7% only a few years ago, and it got bumped down to 5%. If we has a PST of 2% it would be just like what we had but could potential generate billions over the course of a year, the only difference is that our old school "GST" now gives money back to the province.