[GDT] GTD - Flames at Jets 6:00 - SNETW

[JoelOtto29]

Originally Posted by nik-

Why would holding all the young players accountable instead of just one be a good idea?

Are you kidding?

what are you even talking about now

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by JoelOtto29

respecting the specificity of each player and their individual development? yeah, that's the worst.

You need to set a standard for all players on the team. Individual development is one thing, but if all players are not held to the same standards/expectations, then what is the point?

I am not freaking out, but I do have to question the value of benching Sven at this point. Young guys are going to make mistakes, but if only one guy is paying the price, you are creating an issue.

If Mono goes out and plays terrible, he should sit. Same with Glencross or Hudler or any other player on the team. There has to be a base standard.

[Samiz]

It just doesn't make sense to me anymore. How can you rebuild when you're going to have all of your prospects, and future prospects who are coming up, walking on eggshells? Afraid that 1 mistake will keep them out of the roster indefinitely. Last year, Hartley kept referring to Brodie as "their kid" and that he would get a pass for his mistakes. Now Sven, who has played less games than Brodie had last year (I think) is being punished, even after good performances.

At this point, it has to be some sort of grudge or an attitude problem or something

[nik-]

Originally Posted by JoelOtto29

what are you even talking about now

WTF. You just said why would universal across the board treatment ever be good. I'm saying of course it's good ... if a young player is playing bad, like Colborne has (for most of the year), like Monahan has (rarely), like Baertschi has (sometimes) ... you bench them. You don't just bench one ... repeatedly.

Do you understand?

[strombad]

I've long been a proponent of benching Sven and other young players as a method of development, but regardless of that, I'm getting a little tired of Sven being benched.

He hasn't been great, I think it's hard to defend him in the realm of 'unbenchable', but I am finding it more difficult to see a great reason why he needs to be benched.

[VictoryJuice]

rebuilding with a coach who doesn't know how to do it. I honestly would rather have brent coaching, he's proven he knows how to handle young players before. so sick of hartley.

[JoelOtto29]

Originally Posted by J-bo09

You need to set a standard for all players on the team. Individual development is one thing, but if all players are not held to the same standards/expectations, then what is the point?

I am not freaking out, but I do have to question the value of benching Sven at this point. Young guys are going to make mistakes, but if only one guy is paying the price, you are creating an issue.

If Mono goes out and plays terrible, he should sit. Same with Glencross or Hudler or any other player on the team. There has to be a base standard.

And how do you define this standard? I don't totally disagree with you but it's pretty goofy to think that Sven is getting singled out because he's making "mistakes" when it's clear that everyone out there is making mistakes left and right.

the "team" on a whole should always be accountable to whichever standard they set for themselves BUT thinking that Backlund, McGrattan, Smid, and Sven all should have the same expectation/standard is silly.

[ricardodw]

Stempniak follows up a -3 in Dallas with a -1 against the Oilers... panics with the goalie pulled and puts one in his own net.

He totally gets pummelled by a smallish non-fighting d-man by totally not even defending himself.

Yep it was Baertschi's fault.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by JoelOtto29

that's what i'm saying. why would "across the board" universal treatment EVER be a good idea for player development?

Having a different development approach is all fine and good, but having a different punishment / reward system for specific players is not reasonable.

Imagine if your boss suspended you for a day for being late, but gave the other guy a stern lecture. Systems like that breed resentment from players.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by VictoryJuice

rebuilding with a coach who doesn't know how to do it. I honestly would rather have brent coaching, he's proven he knows how to handle young players before. so sick of hartley.

Brent's hockey was boring as hell. He was terrible at line matching and inflexible in his style. Not sure which coach is better but we know both got the job through nepotism.

[JoelOtto29]

Originally Posted by nik-

WTF. You just said why would universal across the board treatment ever be good. I'm saying of course it's good ... if a young player is playing bad, like Colborne has (for most of the year), like Monahan has (rarely), like Baertschi has (sometimes) ... you bench them. You don't just bench one ... repeatedly.

Do you understand?

you said:

"Why would holding all the young players accountable instead of just one be a good idea?"

And I agree with you... universal accountability only works for the team as a whole and not by differentiating between individual players, especially goofy categories like "the young players"

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by JoelOtto29

And how do you define this standard? I don't totally disagree with you but it's pretty goofy to think that Sven is getting singled out because he's making "mistakes" when it's clear that everyone out there is making mistakes left and right.

the "team" on a whole should always be accountable to whichever standard they set for themselves BUT thinking that Backlund, McGrattan, Smid, and Sven all should have the same expectation/standard is silly.

To me the standard should be much higher for Backlund or other vets. I can understand a guy like Sven having a bad period or game. I have much less tolerance when I see crap from the vets.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by JoelOtto29

you said:

"Why would holding all the young players accountable instead of just one be a good idea?"

And I agree with you... universal accountability only works for the team as a whole and not by differentiating between individual players, especially goofy categories like "the young players"

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. I "asked" that sarcastically because that's basically what you implied with your post.

YOU Said

Originally Posted by JoelOtto29

that's what i'm saying. why would "across the board" universal treatment EVER be a good idea for player development?

[Joborule]

I'm gonna put my faith in Hartley here since he is a coach with experience and around these players all the time. So he should know what he's doing. Sven has to be doing something he shouldn't be because it really doesn't make sense for Hartley to keep benching him when he's should be the type of player Hartley wants on the ice. Monahan isn't getting this treatment, so why is Sven?

If Sven isn't being committed to the system or having a entitlement sense, then Hartley is doing the right thing keeping him in check. Don't want Sven to get around with bad habits which will hurt him in the long term.

At this point it may be better to send him down though if Hartley isn't getting the results he want from benching him. You can only do it so many times that it's effect becomes negative.

[JoelOtto29]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Having a different development approach is all fine and good, but having a different punishment / reward system for specific players is not reasonable.

Imagine if your boss suspended you for a day for being late, but gave the other guy a stern lecture. Systems like that breed resentment from players.

that's an awful metaphor.

there's only resentment if there's improper communication and understanding (which i really doubt there is with Sven)

having universal punishment/reward systems for players is some mussolini shenanigans.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by JoelOtto29

you said:

"Why would holding all the young players accountable instead of just one be a good idea?"

And I agree with you... universal accountability only works for the team as a whole and not by differentiating between individual players, especially goofy categories like "the young players"

Actually that is how it works in real life.

Hypothetically, you want Sven (or any young player / rookie) grumbling only if he's not getting the same treatment as Colborne / Monohan / etc... You don't want him grumbling because he's not getting the same treatment as Glencross. The former is how young players compete for jobs in the league, the latter is an attitude problem.

[foshizzle11]

There definitely has to be rules across the board but how you treat players on the team can vary.

Expectations are not the same for everyone. That is just the way it is. Sven has more expectations on him then others because he was such a high draft pick.

I have no problems with how he has been treated, it is likely that we don't know the whole story as to why he is being benched.

I think he has been playing well as of late but makes such huge errors offensively and defensively. How many times has he made great plays then messes it up with an idiotic pass. It's not his confidence that is causing this, it his lack of experience at this level.

He will grow and learn from these mistakes and get stronger. Loads of times he gets knocked off the puck so easily. He is young and has loads of potential. He will excel and contribute when he is ready.

[JoelOtto29]

Originally Posted by nik-

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. I "asked" that sarcastically because that's basically what you implied with your post.

YOU Said

sorry i didn't pick up on your textual sarcasm

[JoelOtto29]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Actually that is how it works in real life.

Hypothetically, you want Sven (or any young player / rookie) grumbling only if he's not getting the same treatment as Colborne / Monohan / etc... You don't want him grumbling because he's not getting the same treatment as Glencross. The former is how young players compete for jobs in the league, the latter is an attitude problem.

i didn't know this wasn't real life.

[Trailer Fire]

I'm sensing a lot of over reaction here. I'm not defending Hartley at all, but while Svens game has been more noticeable all around, that also means it's more noticeable in a negative manner. Ever think Hartley may be sitting Sven because he is playing the game a little too loose and Hartley thinks he needs to tighten up a bit?