Ongoing Residential Schools Tragedy Discussion

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Our junior high phys-ed teacher used to stop us from getting out of control by shouting "you're running around like a bunch of natives". And it wasn't a one off, it was his thing...and nobody thought anything of it.

That's the problem is kids need to be educated by people that care about Indigenous. If we're taught by people that despise them it makes our journey to treating them as equals with respect nearly impossible.

I'm there now, but I'm mad at how long it took.

It is happening.

My kids are 17 and 15.

We were in St Eugene a couple of years ago (15 & 13). They both knew what residential schools were and asked if this was one.

They both asked to go and see the monument at the Hotel.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Slava

Whoa, I'm not sure about that line of thinking. Like frankly this particular case is about a school that started and finished it's course before I was even alive. I have a hard time seeing how I'd "bear some responsibility" for any atrocities committed there?

Well do you benefit in anyway from the historical (and unfortunately not historical) treatment of the Indigenous people of Canada?

If you reside on land that was taken from them, you do.

It's like my iPhone and clothes. I know I'm benefiting from the usage of children and slave or slave-like labour. I'm not forcing those children to work in those factories, but if it wasn't for me (and near every other consumer), then those factories don't exist. I'm responsible, even if I more or less ignore that responsibility.

[SebC]

Causality does not go backwards through time.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by SebC

Causality does not go backwards through time.

true, unfortunately though effect goes forward through time

[Vena]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't even disagree with what you're saying here, as I noted, I think that the federal/provincial governments have a duty to try to rectify these wrongs (or at least apologize and push toward some sort of reconciliation).

I don't think that the first nations people should just "forget about it and move along" or anything of the sort. But I do think that there is a sort of grey area between that view point and "you should give everything back and fell super guilty because everything was stolen". Maybe I feel that way to placate myself, (although I haven't personally stolen anything and the long line of Slavas ancestors weren't likely involved in anything like this given what I know of them). It's an extremely complicated issue though, and these discussions make me uncomfortable because I don't want anything taken out of context.

I hope I was clear that I don't think you are dismissive of the situation or that you don't care. that was not my intention.

It's not about giving it all back at this point, there is a lot more we can do because ultimately we all suffer the consequences. It's important not to over think it too much because it is complicated but at the same time there are so many actions we can take.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

It is happening.

My kids are 17 and 15.

We were in St Eugene a couple of years ago (15 & 13). They both knew what residential schools were and asked if this was one.

They both asked to go and see the monument at the Hotel.

That's very comforting, thank you.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Al Jazeera has some good documentaries.

This was one on Residential Schools from a few years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peLd_jtMdrc

And, if you are looking for some additional reasons to not like the Catholic Church, then watch these two on the Irish mother and baby scandal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65Mc3oBylk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq__aXARjEs

[Mass_nerder]

I had the opportunity to work with an elder from the Blackfoot nation through school, including doing a sweat lodge. He told us some truly horrifying stories of the treatment he recieved at the hands of the priests and nuns at the residential school he was forced to attend. Like, almost unbelievable levels of evil.

[stang]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Our junior high phys-ed teacher used to stop us from getting out of control by shouting "you're running around like a bunch of natives". And it wasn't a one off, it was his thing...and nobody thought anything of it.

That's the problem is kids need to be educated by people that care about Indigenous. If we're taught by people that despise them it makes our journey to treating them as equals with respect nearly impossible.

I'm there now, but I'm mad at how long it took.

My mom blurted out something similar a few years back. I was shocked, and gave her crap.

[Snuffleupagus]

Haven't had a chance to read a lot on this yet but the news is saying some of the body's were as young as 2 or 3 years old, seems to me that's most likely young school aged girls having babies, makes me wonder who were the fathers?

Actually, that's a lie. since the catholic church was in control I don't need to wonder much.

Absolutely deplorable and a black mark on Canadian history.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Stolen Land - Bruce Cockburn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx9fiP-iM1I

From Tierra del Fuego to Ungava Bay
The history of betrayal continues to today.
The spirit of Almighty Voice, the ghost of Anna Mae
Call like thunder from the mountain, you can hear them say
("it's a stolen land")

Apartheid in Arizona, slaughter in Brazil
If bullets don't get good PR there's other ways to kill.
Kidnap all the children, put 'em in a foreign system
Bring them up in no-man's land where no one really wants them.

It's a stolen land, but it's all we've got
It's a stolen land, and there's no going back
It's a stolen land, and we'll never forget
It's a stolen land, and we're not through yet

In my mind I catch a picture, big black raven in the sky
Looking at the ocean, sail reflected in black eye.
Sail as white as heroin, white like weathered bones
Rum and guns and smallpox gonna change the face of home.

If you're like me you'd like to think we've learned from our mistakes
Enough to know we can't play god with others' lives at stake.
So now we've all discovered the world wasn't only made for whites
What step are you gonna take to try and set things right?

[bigtmac19]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

Al Jazeera has some good documentaries.

This was one on Residential Schools from a few years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peLd_jtMdrc

And, if you are looking for some additional reasons to not like the Catholic Church, then watch these two on the Irish mother and baby scandal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65Mc3oBylk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq__aXARjEs

Thanks for posting, what a hard doc to watch. It’s a genocide in our own backyard. Horrifying.

Some of the bodies in that mass grave were only 2 or 3 years old they suspect? Tell me those weren’t babies of girls who had been raped at the schools!

I’ve no words.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by bigtmac19

Some of the bodies in that mass grave were only 2 or 3 years old they suspect? Tell me those weren’t babies of girls who had been raped at the schools!

Most deaths in residential schools were from tuberculosis.

[EldrickOnIce]

We cannot reconcile a past we don't acknowledge.

[Flabbibulin]

This is being covered by large international media like CNN, but not appearing anywhere on the Calgary Sun site. Unreal.

[neo45]

There’s been dark rumors about that Kamloops school in particular for awhile now

Like as dark as it gets

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Most deaths in residential schools were from tuberculosis.

Oh, #### off with your apologist bull####, Cliff. This isn't the thread.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Oh, #### off with your apologist bull####, Cliff. This isn't the thread.

Well actually this is something I’m really interested in.

There is no denying the atrocities committed by the Church and the government nationwide. But in this particular case, there isn’t a lot of detail about what happened to these kids.

If these kids all died of Spanish Flu for instance or if they were all murdered changes the story a quite a bit. An undignified, unmarked mass grave however is still a horrific crime no matter how you slice it.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Well actually this is something I’m really interested in.

There is no denying the atrocities committed by the Church and the government nationwide. But in this particular case, there isn’t a lot of detail about what happened to these kids.

If these kids all died of Spanish Flu for instance or if they were all murdered changes the story a quite a bit. An undignified, unmarked mass grave however is still a horrific crime no matter how you slice it.

And that's an okay question to ask, that a few people already have in this thread.

Pulling the "Well actually... " shtick in a thread where people are clearly experiencing a lot of emotions is beyond tone-deaf.

EDIT: It's also not Cliff's first rodeo in terms residential school apologist garbage.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Well actually this is something I’m really interested in.

There is no denying the atrocities committed by the Church and the government nationwide. But in this particular case, there isn’t a lot of detail about what happened to these kids.

If these kids all died of Spanish Flu for instance or if they were all murdered changes the story a quite a bit. An undignified, unmarked mass grave however is still a horrific crime no matter how you slice it.

Why would they grossly underreport the death numbers if it was from a flu?

Because before this grave was found I think they said up to 40 deaths occurred here. Now they just found a mass grave with six times that number.

This is one of those findings that seems just like the tip of the iceberg to me