Explosion at the Boston Marathon

[polak]

Profiling in the case of Israeli airports does work and it's worked extremely well. I was asked why don't they check everyone, well I'm sure if they could, they would, but it's not an option due to the time and resource constraints. The overall idea is to protect lives and due to budgets and real world factors (sociologists and the like love to ignore those) there is a limit to how many people you can thoroughly check and thats where profiling comes in. It is more then skin color too. Thats just one of the factors that make up a profile.

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

The people 100% for profiling of course are 99.9% likely to never be profiled themselves, so of course they are for it. Much like they'd be for any invasion of privacy that doesn't invade their privacy personally.

You just profiled me...?

Plus you should see my passport picture, I look like a russian terrorist straight from an operation in Chechnya

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I think this clearly demonstrates you are depending on a bunch of bs. Who do you think makes the accusations againt Israel? And what other legitamate global events are ignored by the UN?

Israel seemingly is the only target of the UN, demonstrating corruption and hypocracy. This seems to blind fools, perhaps like you, to ignore those countries where real tragedy takes place and focus your ill will towards Israel.

Your comment is not truthful nor beneficial to any valuable or intelligent comversation.

Israel is a beacon of peace, democracy and freedom in the middle east, surrounded by oppressed peoplethat are often brutalized by their own government. And you call out Israel?

I've been to Israel 3 times (once on Birthright, twice for tourism), and I stand by my criticism based on world news and first hand observation.

That said, I'm not really sure how you infer that criticism of Israel does not extend to her neighbours. Though their biggest border sharing neighbour, Jordan, in relation to much of the Middle East, is very good on these issues.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Looking for Saudi suspects when there is already evidence linking the perpetrators to Saudi Arabia is not racial profiling. That is not what I am arguing against at all.

I think it is still racial profiling assuming that you're using the skin color of people in the photos to find the likely Saudis, but my point is that people are arguing as if the other side believes that either all racial profiling is acceptable or no racial profiling is acceptable. I was kindof hoping that we could all reach that understanding, let it drop, and get back to the tragedy in Boston, but I guess that's too much to ask.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by polak

Profiling in the case of Israeli airports does work and it's worked extremely well. I was asked why don't they check everyone, well I'm sure if they could, they would, but it's not an option due to the time and resource constraints. The overall idea is to protect lives and due to budgets and real world factors (sociologists and the like love to ignore those) there is a limit to how many people you can thoroughly check and thats where profiling comes in. It is more then skin color too. Thats just one of the factors that make up a profile.



You just profiled me...?

Plus you should see my passport picture, I look like a russian terrorist straight from an operation in Chechnya

To be specific, Israel does not profile based on race. Most Israelis are themselves brown skinned. Israel will profile based on factors like language, country of origin, dress, ethnic identity, and name. Not sure if that is any better, as the focus of these cultural differences is directed at arabs, but in their situation it most certainly works.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by SebC

I take issue with any type of quota system or tokenism. When you are talking about a zero-sum game (and many things fall into this category, jobs, college spaces etc.) then an advantage conveyed to someone - through a quota, diversity requirement, or even a simple desire to appear pro-diversity - is discrimination against someone else. Let people compete on merit... that's what equality means to me. No affirmative action required.

Furthermore, implementing this type of affirmative action implicitly reinforces the notion that minority groups cannot compete on a merit basis, which is an effect detrimental to the minority group.

Racial preference exists whether we say it does or not. The problem isn't helped by pretending it does not exist. Focusing on merit is great, but what happens is that when you have to applicants with similar experience and credentials, the white applicant will be picked for the job more often than not. That's because the person hiring unconsciously favors the white person and genuinely believes they are the better candidate.

And then you must realize that the black person been implicitly discriminated against their whole life. So they are given less opportunity and have more obstacles each step of the way. So white people will become more accomplished and experienced easier than black people. Therefore, in order to balance things out you have to give black people opportunities more readily than you give white people. Otherwise white people will always have a great advantage in work and education.

Those are the reasons affirmative action exists. Black people are discriminated against unfairly when applying for a job and their whole life leading up to applying for the job.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Remember, affirmative action sets aside a certain number of positions (jobs, schooling) for other races; If 100 spots exist and whites can only apply to 90 of them, they are at a disadvantage (when minorties have access to all 100).

Say that applies to a school. Normally the top 100 students get in, but now, less than that will get in due to affirmative action (Assuming there are minorities below that 100 level who wouldn't normally get in) and will miss out due to minorities less highly rated being given positions due to their color alone.

I know how affirmative action programs in general operate.

So I repeat, white males are not disadvantaged, they're simply not advantaged to the same degree they've become accustomed.

[Duruss]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I'd like to see a real story of when affirmative action actually ended up screwing over a middle-class, white, CIS male, that has been corroborated by an independant.

Links to Stormfront, The Blaze, or any affiliated sources not allowed.

Is not South Africa a great case study in this? Being a middle age white male makes you nigh unemployable. Of course this is due to there own sordid history.

I find it strange how Europeans have come to so dominate the world really ever since Europe recovered from the Bubonic plague. The elements of history around it with the mongols the collapse of the Ottomans and the advent of the printing press are so fascinating. Though I think this should become a different thread incorporating the white preference topic aswell.

[St. Pats]

This topic got boring when it moved off internet detective work. Can't somebody find the pictures of the suspects somewhere?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Focusing on merit is great, but what happens is that when you have to applicants with similar experience and credentials, the white applicant will be picked for the job more often than not. That's because the person hiring unconsciously favors the white person and genuinely believes they are the better candidate.

These days, I would guess that another probable outcome is that non-white applicant gets hired because the hiring manager wants diversity, fears appearing racist, etc.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by SebC

These days, I would guess that another probable outcome is that non-white applicant gets hired because the hiring manager wants diversity, fears appearing racist, etc.

Speaking specifically about NA, I hear this sentiment frequently, but I've never seen the numbers to back it up.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I've been to Israel 3 times (once on Birthright, twice for tourism), and I stand by my criticism based on world news and first hand observation.

That said, I'm not really sure how you infer that criticism of Israel does not extend to her neighbours. Though their biggest border sharing neighbour, Jordan, in relation to much of the Middle East, is very good on these issues.

Are you denying then that UN accusations against Israel are BS? And what abuses did you see first hand? And I will even help you out, remember you said Israel is one of the worst human rights abusers world wide. I am sure you will substantiate your hateful accusation with your own testimony. Keep in mind the assorted atrocities taking place globaly, I am curious what you come up withthat makes Israel worse.

This is comical, prior to the sudden avaiability of video cameras and the internet accusations against Israel were hard to deny. Now there is a clear absence of any useful footage. Even the accusers have to rely on doctoring footage nowadays or to do what most people do, hold Israel to a different standard than anyone else.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Speaking specifically about NA, I hear this sentiment frequently, but I've never seen the numbers to back it up.

Perhaps the people who could produce studies on such an effect would rather study things that are less likely to result in backlash. And perhaps it's not an easily measurable thing anyways.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by SebC

These days, I would guess that another probable outcome is that non-white applicant gets hired because the hiring manager wants diversity, fears appearing racist, etc.

Not true. A 2004 study shows that people with black sounding names receive 50% less callbacks than white sounding:

scholar.harvard.edu/mullainathan/files/emilygreg.pdf

Diversity is pushed because people need to be pushed in order to overcome their automatic preferences.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

This topic got boring when it moved off internet detective work. Can't somebody find the pictures of the suspects somewhere?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by SebC

These days, I would guess that another probable outcome is that non-white applicant gets hired because the hiring manager wants diversity, fears appearing racist, etc.

There's a chapter in Freakonomics that discusses this. I may not be remembering all the details correctly...

Researchers from Harvard (I think) conducted a study in which they sent two different resumes with nearly-identical experience and education to the same employer. The only difference was that some resumes had traditionally white names like Heather or Cody and some had traditionally black names like DeShawn or Shaniqua. They found that the "white" resumes received a significantly greater number of callbacks requesting an interview than the "black" resumes did.

[Edit] Beaten by Weiser Wonder: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...&postcount=779

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

This topic got boring when it moved off internet detective work. Can't somebody find the pictures of the suspects somewhere?

Anyone got any new MSPaint boxes to share?

Surprised that the FBI/BPD hasn't released the pics of the 2 "suspects" like they said they would today

[mikey_the_redneck]

Could be this guy too.......




...more of the previous guys...





Sorry about the huge pics......

[puckluck2]

Am I missing something about those two guys? I just can't find what's so suspicious about them. That mspaint drawing on the backpack is ridiculous.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Are you denying then that UN accusations against Israel are BS? And what abuses did you see first hand? And I will even help you out, remember you said Israel is one of the worst human rights abusers world wide. I am sure you will substantiate your hateful accusation with your own testimony. Keep in mind the assorted atrocities taking place globaly, I am curious what you come up withthat makes Israel worse.

The destruction of Palestinian structures to allow Jewish settlers to encroach, the favouritism shown to Haredi that has been squeezing out moderates politically and socially, government granted exemptions for religious organizations to discriminate based on gender, race, or sexual orientation, the West Bank Barrier, state-sanctioned assassinations, there is a very long list.

Even the accusers have to rely on doctoring footage nowadays or to do what most people do, hold Israel to a different standard than anyone else.

Why shouldn't we? If Israel wants to sit at the big boys table with the Western nations, it's unacceptable for them to commit more atrocities than any other First World nation.

People aren't going to hold say, Zimbabwae to the same standard as Israel, because they aren't a developed country with billions of dollars in economic support and a firmly entrenched modern infrastructure.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Not true. A 2004 study shows that people with black sounding names receive 50% less callbacks than white sounding.

That doesn't show that the effect that I described doesn't happen, only that racist effects are stronger.