New poll: Harper - Conservatives headed for third place next election?

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Because you're some kind of wacky Libertarian?

Actually, it's because they've stated in their platform that it's exactly what they will do.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Actually, it's because they've stated in their platform that it's exactly what they will do.

So could you point out the lines in their platform that say massive debt is an inevitable gift, all mandates will be harmful to business, and most importantly, where they will claim no responsibility for anything?

I'd have to say you guys are really reaching.

Originally Posted by Weitz

Reading anything Political on this site is a mind numbing affair.

Fixed

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Why do I get the feeling that if oil prices remain low for the next 3-5 years, and a lot of people lose their jobs in Alberta, 20 years from now it will all be blamed on the provincial NDP government?

Why do I get the feeling that when the ndp put the province into major debt over the next 3-5 years, and a lot of people lose their jobs in Alberta, it will all be blamed on low oil prices.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Why do I get the feeling that when the ndp put the province into major debt over the next 3-5 years, and a lot of people lose their jobs in Alberta, it will all be blamed on low oil prices.

Isn't that what people have been blaming it on for the last 6 months leading up to the election?

Are you honestly saying that the US overproducing for the last 6 years didn't lead to lower oil prices?

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Who took their eye off the ball of using resource revenues to build a Heritage Fund and instead used it for ongoing government operations?

Not the NDP

This slump would have been less painful if the PCs kept to Lougheed like ethos

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Isn't that what people have been blaming it on for the last 6 months leading up to the election?

Are you honestly saying that the US overproducing for the last 6 years didn't lead to lower oil prices?

this again.

OK, the ndp is the best possible party for job growth and fiscal responsibility. I'm sure everything in alberta will be a-ok over the next few years and they will watch their spending and limit unemployment growth even if corportate taxes have to go up just a little bit.

I know they'll have meaningful disscussions with oil companies and figure something out that introduces more investment into our province not less. I know the ndp thinks long term about the future for all albertans and won't solve problems by throwing money at it.

and I know rachel notley will give more money to healthcare and all of it will go towards more beds.

I wish the stock markets saw it my way.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

this again.

OK, the ndp is the best possible party for job growth and fiscal responsibility. I'm sure everything in alberta will be a-ok over the next few years and they will watch their spending and limit unemployment growth even if corportate taxes have to go up just a little bit.

I know they'll have meaningful disscussions with oil companies and figure something out that introduces more investment into our province not less. I know the ndp thinks long term about the future for all albertans and won't solve problems by throwing money at it.

and I know rachel notley will give more money to healthcare and all of it will go towards more beds.

I wish the stock markets saw it my way.

You're right, it probably would have been best if we kept a corrupt party rife with cronyism in power just so no one would panic and the status quo would continue to squeeze out the middle class.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

You're right, it probably would have been best if we kept a corrupt party rife with cronyism in power just so no one would panic and the status quo would continue to squeeze out the middle class.

And here lies the problem, people voted based on a person not on a platform. Now we have a nice person and an awful platform. Let's see how this pans out for our province.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

So could you point out the lines in their platform that say massive debt is an inevitable gift, all mandates will be harmful to business, and most importantly, where they will claim no responsibility for anything?

Please refer to my post in the election thread, located here. I think I've done a fairly thorough review of their policy, and I've indicated why it will harm business and finance in the province.

And why would any party want to claim responsibility for failed policy?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

You're right, it probably would have been best if we kept a corrupt party rife with cronyism in power just so no one would panic and the status quo would continue to squeeze out the middle class.

Honestly I'm not a PC guy so I'm sort of okay with the "let's get rid of these bums" thing, but did we have to replace them with literally the worst possible alternative? Was the point to make an even more dramatic statement, a la "when we say we want absolutely anyone else but you, we really mean it, just watch"?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Honestly I'm not a PC guy so I'm sort of okay with the "let's get rid of these bums" thing, but did we have to replace them with literally the worst possible alternative? Was the point to make an even more dramatic statement, a la "when we say we want absolutely anyone else but you, we really mean it, just watch"?

How can anyone say objectively what the worst possible alternative is? How can we measure that? Only according to one set of values (yours)?

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by troutman

How can anyone say objectively what the worst possible alternative is? How can we measure that? Only according to one set of values (yours)?

By looking at the consequences that similar policies have had in other jurisdictions, I'm comfortable objectively stating that proposed NDP policies will not be beneficial to the majority of the population.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Zarley

By looking at the consequences that similar policies have had in other jurisdictions, I'm comfortable objectively stating that proposed NDP policies will not be beneficial to the majority of the population.

Based on what metrics? Only economic ones (which are complex to interpret)?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Honestly I'm not a PC guy so I'm sort of okay with the "let's get rid of these bums" thing, but did we have to replace them with literally the worst possible alternative?

How many viable alternatives were there? What you're really asking is why more Albertans voted NDP instead of Wildrose.

I'd suggest it's because the Wildrose are seen to represent old, rural Albertans. Which is a problem in an increasingly young and increasingly urban province. And while 'no new taxes' reasonates with a certain portion of citizens, it strikes many others as simplistic and ideological rather than a practical solution to the province's budget woes.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by troutman

Based on what metrics? Only economic ones (which are complex to interpret)?

Yes, what is complex to interpret about economic growth? GDP is either growing or shrinking.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Yes, what is complex to interpret about economic growth? GDP is either growing or shrinking.

So, this is the only way to measure good government?

And economic growth is never impacted by factors outside government control?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

How many viable alternatives were there? What you're really asking is why more Albertans voted NDP instead of Wildrose.

No, I'm not asking that... Literally any of the other major parties, be it Wild Rose, Liberal, Alberta Party, all preferable options. Granted, AP would have had to find candidates in more areas.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by troutman

So, this is the only way to measure good government?

No, but it's a good (and I'd argue that it's the best) proxy for other useful metrics.

Originally Posted by troutman

And economic growth is never impacted by factors outside government control?

Not sure where you think I said that but obviously not. Contrasting the impact the policies in different jurisdictions have under the same macroeconomic conditions is a way we can evaluate proposed policies. This is what I mentioned in my initial post on the subject.

[PsYcNeT]

I question overall economic impact as an indicator of good government when the majority of the population keeps getting relatively poorer.

If that's the case, Brazil has the world's best government.

[stampsx2]

I like how ndp supporters are all questioning how we're going to measure the failure of a party.

Just cause unemployment and debt went up, taxes are higher and investment in the province has declined, doesn't mean the party made a mess of things. It's probably oil prices not poor leadership that did it.

When you fail a test question the content.