The Next Flames Coach | News & Rumors

[IgiTang]

Well geez... I wasn't expecting my post to be such a talking point. Pretty slow day around the water cooler, hey?!

Kidding aside, the replies to my post are valid for sure.

My post is merely speculation, much like the other 99% of the posts in this thread..

That said, I can argue that as speculative as my post is, it is an opinion from the way I see things.
You guys disagree, and that's fine.

However, the points you are making in disagreement, I can argue that your points are just as speculative.

As much as I don't know what's going on behind closed doors, neither do you.

That said, I was posing a question, how much slack is going to be given to BT if he brings in a Randy Carlyle or Mike Yeo who arguably are no better and infact the numbers point tobworse than Hartley.

Agreed drafting so low for this many years is unacceptable, that said, I don't see many coaches that are being discussed that will change the draft position dramatically.

So what then? Did the BT screw up in prematurely firing Hartley or was it not soon enough?

Furthermore, if BT screws up the next coaching hire, how long will his leesh be then?

Lastly, if the incoming coach is terrible in on-ice results, do we as a fan base start to question BT?

Again, all speculation on a slow news day and wanting to discuss possible outcomes.

This is not a Witch Hunt. I still really like BT, I'm simply a concerned fan, thinking out loud.

[Angelino]

I wouldn't mind seeing Adam Oates as a coach in Calgary, if not in a head coaching position, as a part of the staff in some manner. Apparently he is well liked amongst players and has a detail to attention in addition to bringing "presence" to the locker room.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I think this situation is truly BT first and biggest fumble since taking over the GM spot.

Sure, the Flames DR may not have been the happiest with Hartley, but they knew him. They knew what to expect and the players knew how they were going to be handled.

The Optics of firing Hartley appears to be that of, BT had a guy in mind, now that coach is gone, and now BT doesn't have a chair now that the music has stopped.

I will be very disappointed if BT brings in someone who is similar to Hartley, but has a much worse track record. And sadly, all signs are pointing to this as being the case and the eventual outcome.

I guess the 3 headed goalie monster was his true first, by his own admission, so this situation is #2.

Hamilton move aside, how many poor moves will BT be allowed to make before people start considering him a problem?

I havnt lost faith in BT yet, but this clear lack of direction has me worried that it is going to lead to more knee jerk reaction in the future to cover for his mistakes.

The Flames were 25th, 26th, 16th, 25th in the years that Hartley was in control. Last year was an abnormal year with him getting well deserved accolades. While the goaltending fiasco caused a lot of issues, a lot of the issues this year do fall on Hartley's reluctance to adjust.

I like Hartley and was surprised he was fired, but there is clearly more to this than just the Flames record. Several players despised him, and it seems like he was tuned out by the players and it showed a lot on the bench. I do believe that Treveling did this move because Boudreau just became available, but was not in a position to quickly grab him, and Minnesota acted quickly.

Let's see what he brings to the table. Just because he interviewed Mike Yeo and Randy Carlyle, does not mean that either will be head coach.

Funny enough, searching Randy Carlyle flames got me this result

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=147351

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Firebot

The Flames were 25th, 26th, 16th, 25th in the years that Hartley was in control. Last year was an abnormal year with him getting well deserved accolades. While the goaltending fiasco caused a lot of issues, a lot of the issues this year do fall on Hartley's reluctance to adjust.

I like Hartley and was surprised he was fired, but there is clearly more to this than just the Flames record. Several players despised him, and it seems like he was tuned out by the players and it showed a lot on the bench. I do believe that Treveling did this move because Boudreau just became available, but was not in a position to quickly grab him, and Minnesota acted quickly.

Let's see what he brings to the table. Just because he interviewed Mike Yeo and Randy Carlyle, does not mean that either will be head coach.

Funny enough, searching Randy Carlyle flames got me this result

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=147351

I'm not saying firing Hartley was a mistake. No one actually knows why Hartley was fired other than "hear say".

Whether is was a difference in opinion of principals, unwillingness to change or adapt, getting out coached, players despising Hartley, lack of direction, terrible special teams, poor execution or all of the above.. We don't know.

What I'm asking and pointing to is much less about Hartley and more about BT.

Agreed, it's a wait and see moment for the fan base but that's boring.

At what point do the Fans start to question BT?

If he screws the pooch on his next hire? Is he given 2 years with his own coaching hire?

Is this hire a must hit or is a miss acceptable?

I don't have the answers, but those of you who seem to be so much wiser and in the know..

At what point do you start to question BT?

[polak]

Not for a while yet.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

At what point do you start to question BT?

You start to question him when his own moves fail or backfire. The 3 headed goalie fiasco was on BT. Hartley was not a Treleving hire. The next coach will be under his watch, and he will be judged based on that decision.

So far, most people on this board would agree that Brad Treleving has had a significant positive impact to this team, far more than a few blunders here and there.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

Not on board with Yeo at all. His name is too short, very suspicious. Take a pass Flames.

NSFW!

[Fighting Banana Slug]

"Hearsay", as well as what BT said himself.

At what point do you start to question BT? The second he was hired. He knows he is being constantly judged and questioned. Bollig trade? Pretty crappy. Engelland? Marginal. 3 headed goalie monster? Either the worst thing ever, or nothing, depending on who you ask. You just have to balance all of the moves, and I think it is pretty clear he is doing a good job and he shouldn't be on a short leash. At a minimum, he needs a chance to hire his own coach!

The Flames will need to show positive results, no doubt. BT has shown really good decision making. Calculated and well thought out. For me, his worst mistake was not Raymond or the 3 headed goalie monster, but actually the $$$ given Ramo, when there didn't seem to be any competition for his services. Minor mistake in my judgment, especially when viewed with the big trades and what looks to be a good draft record thus far.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

A mediocre Yeo

THat's redundant.

He's medYeocre

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

"Hearsay", as well as what BT said himself.

At what point do you start to question BT? The second he was hired. He knows he is being constantly judged and questioned. Bollig trade? Pretty crappy. Engelland? Marginal. 3 headed goalie monster? Either the worst thing ever, or nothing, depending on who you ask. You just have to balance all of the moves, and I think it is pretty clear he is doing a good job and he shouldn't be on a short leash. At a minimum, he needs a chance to hire his own coach!

The Flames will need to show positive results, no doubt. BT has shown really good decision making. Calculated and well thought out. For me, his worst mistake was not Raymond or the 3 headed goalie monster, but actually the $$$ given Ramo, when there didn't seem to be any competition for his services. Minor mistake in my judgment, especially when viewed with the big trades and what looks to be a good draft record thus far.

Good post. Some good points raised with some perspective that, in contrary to some of mine, they were brought up in a direct, unemotional manner.

Some people around here could learn from it.

I hope you're right though in trusting BT to make a calculated, well thought out coaching decision that can take the team to the next level.

[vilzeh]

Yeo? Why? Dump and chase hockey, totally kills Gaudreau just as he killed Granlund, tried to make him a power forward with his size, nice.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Good post. Some good points raised with some perspective that, in contrary to some of mine, they were brought up in a direct, unemotional manner.

Some people around here could learn from it.

I hope you're right though in trusting BT to make a calculated, well thought out coaching decision that can take the team to the next level.

Thanks. The "calculated" part is just my conjecture. I don't know the guy, so maybe he is just firing darts at a dart board, but it sure seems like he has a good handle on things. I think we are lucky to have him.

[IgiTang]

Was just reading the STL vs Dallas thread.

If Dallas wins tonight, and Hitchcock is fired, would we really want Hitchcock as a coach?

Sure, Hitch is a systems and task master type coach, but with that group of players, he still can't win or get the team to conference final?

Why would the Flames want him? What does he bring that outweighs his failure with such a stacked group of players?

I'm also not convinced hes a players coach. From what I understand, he's quite the opposite. I could be recalling him wrong, but don't players get tired of his schtick similar to what the Flames players had been regarding "despising Hartley", supposedly?

[Calgary4LIfe]

A lot of exaggeration both ways in the last couple of pages I think.

Hartley was in charge of a rebuilding team. He didn't get fired for finishing near the bottom for most of the time he was here. That's just silly reasoning - the Flames were 'expected' to finish low, and even though they did, Hartley was still lauded league-wide for instilling their hard-working culture. This was the year before the Jack Adams playoff season.

With that being said, it wasn't a huge mistake for Treliving to make a change either. We aren't privy to what goes on in the room. Treliving I am sure also wants to put his stamp on the team as well - his job will be on the line in the coming years, and I would assume he at least wants his choice of coach to go along with it. There were definitely areas of concern with Hartley's coaching anyways. I don't think it was a mistake keeping him, and I don't think it was necessarily a mistake firing him either.

What I am concerned about is the names being bandied around right now with respect to former coaches supposedly getting interest and interviews - namely Yeo and Carlyle. I don't think very much of either of them. I assumed Treliving had a guy or two in mind who he was targeting (and I don't think it was Boudreau either, or he would have met with Boudreau quickly before going back to Russia).

I am hoping this is just how Brad "Hard Worker Who Never Leaves a Stone Unturned" Treliving operates. Hopefully we as fans will hear some news about a 'refreshing' coaching candidate, or a legitimate experienced 'winner' that we can have confidence in. However, I really didn't want Hartley hired in the first place - I thought it was a huge mistake. I actually think he is the third or fourth best coach in Flames' history now, behind Badger Bob, Darryl Sutter and depending on how you see it, Terry Crisp (he won...).

We just need to keep an open mind and see how this unfolds before we start panicking. Maybe he is interviewing Yeo and Carlyle simply because he intends to hire a new 'up and comer', and wants to gauge the possibility of these other coaches working with the guy he has in mind. We have no idea what the plans are. Even if he hires Yeo, or Carlyle, or whomever else we are afraid of, they may end up better. Lots of coaches completely bombed in certain locations, and then went on to have a lot of success.

Edit: Let me throw my wild suggestion while I am at it: I would actually wouldn't mind if the Flames went out and hired Dave King as an assistant. Guy has been around a long time, and has long been thought of as one of the greatest minds in hockey. With his NHL experience and his KHL experience, he may be a good 'thinking outside the box' type. I wouldn't want him as a head coach, but perhaps as an assistant. Not sure he would come back to be an assistant, but I bet he would become a pretty good assistant.

[Angelino]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Was just reading the STL vs Dallas thread.

If Dallas wins tonight, and Hitchcock is fired, would we really want Hitchcock as a coach?

Sure, Hitch is a systems and task master type coach, but with that group of players, he still can't win or get the team to conference final?

Why would the Flames want him? What does he bring that outweighs his failure with such a stacked group of players?

I'm also not convinced hes a players coach. From what I understand, he's quite the opposite. I could be recalling him wrong, but don't players get tired of his schtick similar to what the Flames players had been regarding "despising Hartley", supposedly?

If it is somehow down to Yeo, Carlyle and Hitchcock then sign me up for Hitchcock. I still think Oates might be worth a shot in some capacity.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Angelino

If it is somehow down to Yeo, Carlyle and Hitchcock then sign me up for Hitchcock. I still think Oates might be worth a shot in some capacity.

I fully agree. Hitch for sure, if those are the only options.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I just want to point out that some common strategies used in NHL were imported by guys like Scotty Bowman from Europe. But I do think a year in the AHL would be a smart move for an import coach.

I think a gig as an assistant coach would be more likely. More private jets and less bus drives, more time in the best league in the world. Even if the salary probably isn't more than what a top coach makes in KHL, that should be interesting even for an older coach.

There's actually a couple of European-born assistant coaches right now. Tommy Albelin with the Devils and Ulf Samuelsson with the Rangers. A former NHL player would have the benefit of being much more of known quantity in NA and having the necessary contacts, even if they started their coaching career in Europe.

[Vulcan]

For me Treliving has been doing very good job. If this coach hiring turns out to be a dud, I think he deserves another shot at another coach hiring. I'd like to see Treliving stay for a good number of years. For those complaining about trading for Bollig and signing Raymond, these are such minor deals in the big picture and were stop gap measures.

In his favour are the Hamilton, Baertschi, Russell, Hudler, Shinkaruk and Glencross deals which could and should provide us with pluses for years to come.
I think he's a winner.

[FlamesAddiction]

Personally, I think the Hamilton trade is a little overstated. A good trade, but not the fleecing most people think it is.

I don't see Hamilton as a future Norris winner or a captain. Nor do I see him as the type of player that carries a team on his shoulders. He's a good 2-4 guys though and I am happy to have him. He is the type of player you would hope to draft in the first half of the 1st round, so giving up a 15th was decent considering he was already proven. Adding two 2nd rounders evened it out more. A good deal, but not a career maker IMO like some people consider it.

I think who he hires as coach will be very important and will make or break him over the next couple of seasons.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Edit: Let me throw my wild suggestion while I am at it: I would actually wouldn't mind if the Flames went out and hired Dave King as an assistant. Guy has been around a long time, and has long been thought of as one of the greatest minds in hockey. With his NHL experience and his KHL experience, he may be a good 'thinking outside the box' type. I wouldn't want him as a head coach, but perhaps as an assistant. Not sure he would come back to be an assistant, but I bet he would become a pretty good assistant.

I would be totally for this, having read his book. He seems like the type that knows when to pick his spots to yell and when to encourage. He knows how to get his team to really, really hate losing as well. Magnitogorsk Metallurg was the team he coached - he helped a very young Malkin along before he went to the Pens.

There was a section at the end, after he received the news of his firing, where a lot of players came up to him, some emotional, and thanked him. I remember one of the players going "Hey coach, my career was in the dark and I was uncertain about it, but you showed me the way" That kind of stuff.


Would recommend to any hockey fan.