Evander Kane tracksuit saga

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Claude Noel doesn't agree with you. He rejects most of the narrative on this string about Kane being a "locker room cancer". He says Kane has played through a lot of injuries and he has not quit on the team:

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/noel-kane-ha...-team-1.201294

His team-mates don't agree with you either:

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/hnidy-teamma...-back-1.201275

Edit: Sorry the second link doesn't bear out that point although the title says so.

Hmmm. Didn't Wheeler just say "we have certain standards, we're getting paid a lot of money and we have to be professionals around here, that's how we operate and there's other places to go" in reference to a question re: Kane? And didn't Buff make the analogy of raising children and having boundaries, when asked about it?

Honestly I could be wrong but if I remember correctly it seems like his teammates have had enough...

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It has actually been at semantics for a little while now...

The only way to avoid semantics is not to use words at all. But a non-verbal message board probably wouldn't work too well. We'd all be posting selfies of us grunting and beating our chests. Which might be fun in its own way, but I doubt it would still be going after all these years.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I said this:



And you replied:



Which is to say, you agreed that he is getting the surgery purely to spite the Jets. Which means, not at all because there is a medical reason for it. If you do something purely for reason A, then you are not doing it for reason B.

Lol. Ok then. I can see this conversation with you is pointless

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Lol. Ok then. I can see this conversation with you is pointless

If it's pointless, it's because you have done a lousy job of expressing your points. But whatever, do what you like. Go talk to someone who has telepathy and will give you credit for what you thought you meant to say instead of what you actually said.

[united]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Oh. So he doesn't need the surgery at all, then. His shoulder is 100%. Right?

Well, I've heard of pro athletes doing some crazy things, but I've never heard of one telling a surgeon to cut into a perfectly healthy shoulder just to piss off his teammates. I suppose it will all be good fun, especially when the surgeon loses his licence for it.

Clearly that's EXACTLY what he was implying. I couldn't possibly think of anything else he could have meant...unless I was being intentionally obtuse for the purpose of arguing on the internet, that is.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

If it's pointless, it's because you have done a lousy job of expressing your points. But whatever, do what you like. Go talk to someone who has telepathy and will give you credit for what you thought you meant to say instead of what you actually said.

What do the words "at this exact moment" mean to you then? I'm genuinely curious.

There is not a person on earth that thinks Evander Kane is getting surgery for no reason. Many people, including reporters and posters here have raised the wisdom of the timing.

Instead of arguing that point, you straw man it.

You seriously didn't understand "at this exact moment"?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by New Era

You have to remember these are all alpha males here. When a player with a reputation comes into the room is important the leader shows who is boss and makes that obvious to everyone in the room that he has made a statement for all to see. It's kind of like when a rookie fighter wants to make a name for himself. He's going to take on the alpha male in the league and try to earn that early respect. Don't forget these guys are schooled in hockey, and not much else. Thinking they are going to behave as two business people would is unrealistic. These guys have been raised in this environment and this is what they know. And if you think this stuff still doesn't go on, because of the big money, you're crazy. The big money has just made the egos that much bigger. Hazing is just an example, but the behaviors are documented and out there.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/photos/...tiation-072612

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...in-nhl-history

Some of the stuff that goes on is good hearted and meant to be funny. But some of it is down right mean and is designed to send a message. You conform or you will be singled out.

This is professional sports. These are grown adult men. No one is going to think any form of bullying is ok. Especially not when it's someone your team just traded for. Someone you haven't even got the chance to get to know. Just because these guys are hockey players doesn't mean they don't understand respect and have a decent set of morals. Theres a massive difference between rookie hazing and just going out of your way to be an ####### for no reason. Your logic is so flawed it's hilarious. The alpha gorilla in the dressing room needs to assert his dominance for all to see. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[Demaeon]

Are you people purposely ignoring the fact that it was the stiff, starched dress shirt, which he had intended to wear to the morning meeting, that further aggravated his shoulder injury, necessitating immediate medical action?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

What do the words "at this exact moment" mean to you then? I'm genuinely curious.

There is not a person on earth that thinks Evander Kane is getting surgery for no reason. Many people, including reporters and posters here have raised the wisdom of the timing.

Instead of arguing that point, you straw man it.

You seriously didn't understand "at this exact moment"?

What you meant to say, presumably, was that Kane chose this exact moment to get the surgery in order to spite the team.

What you actually said was that the only reason he had at this exact moment was to spite the team.

These two statements are not remotely equivalent.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

What you meant to say, presumably, was that Kane chose this exact moment to get the surgery in order to spite the team.

What you actually said was that the only reason he had at this exact moment was to spite the team.

These two statements are not remotely equivalent.

Really? Here's the breakdown. I try not to get sucked into such dumb arguments, so this is my last post on it.

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Based on the fact that he actually does need the surgery, and on what a lot of other pro athletes have done in the past – delay the surgery and gut it out for the sake of the team.

Or do you think he's going under the knife purely to spite the Jets?

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

At this exact moment? Yup. It's fairly plain to see

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Oh. So he doesn't need the surgery at all, then. His shoulder is 100%. Right?

Well, I've heard of pro athletes doing some crazy things, but I've never heard of one telling a surgeon to cut into a perfectly healthy shoulder just to piss off his teammates. I suppose it will all be good fun, especially when the surgeon loses his licence for it.

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Where did I say he's getting surgery purely out of spite?

I specifically said he's getting it done now out of spite.

Then you followed with this:

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Which is to say, you agreed that he is getting the surgery purely to spite the Jets. Which means, not at all because there is a medical reason for it. If you do something purely for reason A, then you are not doing it for reason B.

I honestly don't know where your comprehension or logic is at

Other posters seemed to follow just fine

[Mister Yamoto]

Kane is a punk but Byfuglien deserves a share of the blame in this one.

A real leader would have made sure that this was dealt with internally. Now this circus has the Jets in full tilt mode while they are dropping quickly down the standings. Not to mention, when he recovers from his surgery, the Jets will likely be looking at a Marc Savard for Rusain Zainullin type scenario.

Throw the punks track suit in the shower? Nice move Buff.

[Mister Yamoto]

double post

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Kane is a punk but Byfuglien deserves a share of the blame in this one.

A real leader would have made sure that this was dealt with internally. Now this circus has the Jets in full tilt mode while they are dropping quickly down the standings. Not to mention, when he recovers from his surgery, the Jets will likely be looking at a Marc Savard for Rusain Zainullin type scenario.

Throw the punks track suit in the shower? Nice move Buff.

They were dealing with it internally. Kane choose to skip the game and cause the media circus. Admittedly is immature, but you can't blame the media circus on Byfuglien. Also, the Jets haven't played a game since this "blew up" in the media, so I'm not sure the collapse is due to it

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

They were dealing with it internally. Kane choose to skip the game and cause the media circus. Admittedly is immature, but you can't blame the media circus on Byfuglien. Also, the Jets haven't played a game since this "blew up" in the media, so I'm not sure the collapse is due to it

If Byfuglien didn't do what he did do you think Kane would have still skipped the game? I'm not saying either is right but that's not a move a good leader makes. A true leader would find a much more constructive way to deal with things and if you still can't at that point then it becomes managements job to handle it. I definitely wouldn't expect something like that from Gio.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

They were dealing with it internally. Kane choose to skip the game and cause the media circus. Admittedly is immature, but you can't blame the media circus on Byfuglien. Also, the Jets haven't played a game since this "blew up" in the media, so I'm not sure the collapse is due to it

True, but don't you think that throwing the track suit in the shower was throwing gasoline on the fire? Real leaders don't do stuff like that.

I'm not blaming the whole thing on Byfuglien. I'm saying that I think he made a bad situation much worse.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Hackey

If Byfuglien didn't do what he did do you think Kane would have still skipped the game? I'm not saying either is right but that's not a move a good leader makes. A true leader would find a much more constructive way to deal with things and if you still can't at that point then it becomes managements job to handle it. I definitely wouldn't expect something like that from Gio.

I can agree with that. I just think Kane is far more in the wrong overall and it seems like some want to make it about 2 sides equally wrong

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I honestly don't know where your comprehension or logic is at

Other posters seemed to follow just fine

I'll tell you where my comprehension and logic are at: Better than most of the population, thank you very much.

In this specific case, I interpreted what you said in light of the fact that you were disagreeing with what I had said earlier.

The whole reason you started this ruckus was to disagree with me when I said it was likely that Kane had been delaying the surgery because the season was still in progress, and stopped delaying because his reason for delaying – wanting to help the team – was gone.

What exactly about that statement did you disagree with? The only thing I've been able to get out of you is that he was motivated by spite, which is just another way of saying exactly what I said. You therefore had to be disagreeing with something else, and the only other thing on the table was the need for the surgery as such. Since you were obviously disagreeing with me about something, I had to suppose it was that.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

True, but don't you think that throwing the track suit in the shower was throwing gasoline on the fire? Real leaders don't do stuff like that.

Unless you're trying to purge the room of the problem. All in all I think that is where the players were at.

Majority of the responsibility rests on Cheveldayoffs lap for this. The fact that suspensions aren't/haven't been dealt out for either side is confusing. You're letting the dogs run the kennel.

Still, in the grand scheme of everything, chucking some clothes into a shower is at the bottom of the pile in terms of serious action. Too much has been made of this.

[heep223]

My reaction when browsing through this thread while on a boring conference call on a Friday afternoon:

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I can agree with that. I just think Kane is far more in the wrong overall and it seems like some want to make it about 2 sides equally wrong

They both handled the situation like idiots. I don't think either is more right or wrong than the other. Poorly handled all around.