2011 Canadian Election Thread

[getbak]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Is it just me or is Justin Trudeau a massive d bag? At his results party last night he was wearing a suit with no tie and his dress shirt had at least 3 open buttons at the top... He also answered the questions he was being asked with more arrogance than any politician I've ever seen. Seems like a real piece of work.

Like father, like son...and the second generation is usually worse because they grew up in the environment where their father was revered, where at least the father had to do something to earn that reverence.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by yads

Can people expand on this. I've always heard the Anders hate and am not totally sure where it comes from. Out of all of the candidates in our riding he seemed the most qualified (I didn't vote for him fwiw.)

I took a look at his record and sure he's a backbencher that hasn't put forth any bills, but he at least shows up to vote.

How do you figure he was the most qualified? Aside from having been an MP, he has absolutely no qualifications to do anything. He's never even had a real job. Most of the Anders dislike comes from his very extreme right-wing positions though. The party has kept him pretty thoroughly muzzled lately, but almost every time he does open his mouth he's an embarrassment. He's also apparently not very responsive to constituents (I've never tried to contact him personally though).

[nik-]

I don't vote Liberal, but I'm a fan of Josipa Petrunic

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Slava

Sure and that sounds good...except that its basically the false economy I was referring to. Then you have people trading credits for whatever price they can sell them for and it makes it really hard for say a multi-billion dollar operation to plan that their carbon costs in three years should be $X.

The other issue is that Cap and Trade hasn't really worked in Europe at all. I've seen that comment from both the environmental groups as well as from business.

Cap and trade favours existing industries and large corporations, and penalizes growth since a new company just starting out wouldn't have a carbon allotment. A large corporation whose business area is in decline could sell credits to prop themselves up. In some respects it reminds me of equalization payments - there's almost an incentive for bad corporate management. But it's the existing industries and corporations that have the resources to lobby the government.

I remember reading a pretty good article a couple of years ago by an economist about why a carbon tax would be both more effective and fairer than a cap and trade program, but unfortunately can't remember where I saw it. I'd support a properly implemented, revenue-neutral carbon tax. Unfortunately there seems to be a bit of a stigma associated with the whole idea. It's also almost impossible to implement something without the US also doing it.

[yads]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

How do you figure he was the most qualified? Aside from having been an MP, he has absolutely no qualifications to do anything. He's never even had a real job. Most of the Anders dislike comes from his very extreme right-wing positions though. The party has kept him pretty thoroughly muzzled lately, but almost every time he does open his mouth he's an embarrassment. He's also apparently not very responsive to constituents (I've never tried to contact him personally though).

The NDP candidate was a safeway worker from Edmonton with absolutely no information on her website other than the fact she was a union worker.

The Green candidate was fresh out of dance school and her accomplishments included "green renovations" on her house.

The Liberal candidate was the best out of the lot as she was a former nurse, but no political experience at all.

The Marxist-Leninist candidate, well...

[browna]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Is it just me or is Justin Trudeau a massive d bag? At his results party last night he was wearing a suit with no tie and his dress shirt had at least 3 open buttons at the top... He also answered the questions he was being asked with more arrogance than any politician I've ever seen. Seems like a real piece of work.

Wonder where he got that from?

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

Cap and trade favours existing industries and large corporations, and penalizes growth since a new company just starting out wouldn't have a carbon allotment. A large corporation whose business area is in decline could sell credits to prop themselves up. In some respects it reminds me of equalization payments - there's almost an incentive for bad corporate management. But it's the existing industries and corporations that have the resources to lobby the government.

Kinda curious if you have a reference on that. I'm writing a paper on a company involved in potential cap and trade (that's a very small portion of the paper), but this would definitely be interesting to mention and cite.

[Frequitude]

Good arguements from the carbon taxers. Question though, what do you do with the tax revenue? Roll it into the general federal budget...reinvest it in green technology...?

[The Goon]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't vote Liberal, but I'm a fan of Josipa Petrunic

Wow, she looked a lot different/older on the news the other night. She should have gone with this look.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

Cap and trade favours existing industries and large corporations, and penalizes growth since a new company just starting out wouldn't have a carbon allotment. A large corporation whose business area is in decline could sell credits to prop themselves up. In some respects it reminds me of equalization payments - there's almost an incentive for bad corporate management. But it's the existing industries and corporations that have the resources to lobby the government.

Do the initial allocation by auction... problem solved.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Totally. Half his shirt undone, hands in his pockets, repeatedly shrugging his shoulders as if saying "the bigger failure tonight isn't my problem. I won my riding and that's all I care about".

I wanted to punch him in the face more than I wanted to turn the TV off during May's speech.

The guy is so french he hates himself

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Azure

Actually, he is THE rising star in the Conservative Party. Going to make one hell of a PM one day.

Um, he needs to lose some weight first, and the next leader of the CPC will be from the east, not Calgary.

[Calgaryborn]

Unless you can show where cap and trade or a simple carbon tax will effect the world's temparature I'm against both. Lowering carbon emmissions in Canada would be insignificant globally. All you would do is create a built in disadvantage for the Canadian economy. If carbon emmissions is going to warm the planet, what Canada does won't effect that happening by a single day.

Moreover ######ing our economy will make adjusting to the changing climate conditions more difficult. Compare Japan to Indonesia and you can starkly see the diffrence economic wealth makes. I know cap and trade won't turn Canada into a third world country but, limiting our wealth limits our ability to cope with change.

We and the world would be far better off if Canada remained strong economically and used our wealth to find other viable sources of energy while constantly looking for better ways to recover carbon and/or burn our fuels cleaner.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Good arguements from the carbon taxers. Question though, what do you do with the tax revenue? Roll it into the general federal budget...reinvest it in green technology...?

Broad based tax cuts to families, low-income families (but not enough to use up all of the revenue).

Then targeted tax cuts for innovation, R&D, and increasing carbon productivity in industry, small business.

Then funding for public transportation infrastructure, leading edge technologies in buildings, etc to address some of the public good issues.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Curious what everyone thinks on this.

Did the NDP really win big?

1) They lost power in that they went from being the swing vote to a majority opposition.
2) Their major gains were from a protest vote in a province that I'm not so sure they understand. That will be a tricky tightrope and I just can't see them holding those seats long term.

That being said, they gained some serious traction on the federal landscape.

I'd say they won big, even though they ironically lost influence.

The NDP has grown from being a special interest fringe party with no hope of ever governing to Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, and consequently the party best positioned to challenge the Tories in 2015.

That, and they destroyed the Bloc. They not only beat them, they went and screwed the Bloc's wives afterward.

What they won last night was opportunity. The opportunity to show they can be a legitimate governing alternative with a broad spectrum of support.

Now we get to see if they can hold that opportunity, or if they will piss it away.

[Tinordi]

NDP's support in Quebec is a mile wide and half an inch deep. They made a deal with the devil saying they'd open up the constitution. That will come back to them. In the end, the Quebec media will eventually hold the NDP's feet to the fire on representing the province's interests. With considerable amounts of junior members there that will be a big task. How they broker their core supporters, trade unions, left wing urbanites, and farmers with the new HALF of their support in Quebec soft-nationalists will be very interesting. Ultimately, on the surface the NDP looks strong but they may actually be at their weakest point.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I'd say they won big, even though they ironically lost influence.

The NDP has grown from being a special interest fringe party with no hope of ever governing to Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, and consequently the party best positioned to challenge the Tories in 2015.

What they won last night was opportunity. The opportunity to show they can be a legitimate governing alternative with a broad spectrum of support.

Now we get to see if they can hold that opportunity, or if they will piss it away.

NDP won big in Quebec, now they have limited influence and have lost power.

Really the only thing the NDP managed to do was to secure a Majority for Harper.

When the next election occurs, I would bet NDP will ultimately loss seats to the Liberals.

With so many new seats in Quebec it will be difficult to manage that aspect.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

NDP's support in Quebec is a mile wide and half an inch deep. They made a deal with the devil saying they'd open up the constitution. That will come back to them. In the end, the Quebec media will eventually hold the NDP's feet to the fire on representing the province's interests. With considerable amounts of junior members there that will be a big task. How they broker their core supporters, trade unions, left wing urbanites, and farmers with the new HALF of their support in Quebec soft-nationalists will be very interesting. Ultimately, on the surface the NDP looks strong but they may actually be at their weakest point.

Agreed. I think they are actually in a bit of a tough spot. The CPC will likely obliterate their image over the next four years, as, regardless of what you think of them, they are by far the best political strategists. I think that if the Liberals are smart, and they commit to rebuilding their party, they could end up benefiting greatly from this defeat. As for the NDP, I think the best thing that they had going for them is that no one really realized just how unqualified they are to run the government. They won't have anywhere to hide any more and Layton won't be able to get by simply by shouting catch phrases from third place.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't vote Liberal, but I'm a fan of Josipa Petrunic

Until you hear her talk...

Wow she got smoked. That conservative guy sh ran against is a huge dbag too.

[Kybosh]

Death of democracy watch: Day 1