Israel declares war on Hamas

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Yes, this isnt a numbers game,

You're the one claiming that this conflict is no worse than others.

I'm simply presenting a graph that argues against that and shows the rate of child slaughter is unprecedented.

[zunie75]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Yes, this isnt a numbers game, how many kids die in a war depends on how long the war goes on for, this war will end in a month or so effectively, maybe 6 or 8 thousand kids will die, kids are still dying in Syria does that make the Syrian war worse than Gaza because it has more dead kids? they are all awful, how many kids die is pretty much random chance in a war

Isn't it a numbers game? The numbers also elicit a certain response. How many posts have been about the amount of hostages, dead people on both sides, dead babies etc. Seems to me the numbers are a big part of the game.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Azure

War is hell. Innocent people die, especially innocent children. But when the US and allies were bombing ISIS in Mosul, and also killing innocent children, nobody went and called their actions barbaric, because everyone knew it was justified, while at the same time understanding that war is hell, and innocent children will die.

People didn't protest it or call the US actions barbaric because ISIS genuinely displayed their evil. And ISIS was conquering Muslim spaces.

If you replace the US with Israel in the ISIS war its a whole different result.

Its the same here.

Hamas' actions on Oct 7th were no less repulsive and barbaric then what ISIS was doing. Yet nobody cared because of the political dimensions. ISIS became an easy boogeyman of evil.

Hamas is at this point every bit as evil as ISIS, but there was little to no Israel dimension in the war against ISIS, ISIL whatever.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by zunie75

Isn't it a numbers game? The numbers also elicit a certain response. How many posts have been about the amount of hostages, dead people on both sides, dead babies etc. Seems to me the numbers are a big part of the game.

Isn't any war entirely a numbers game?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Bagor

You're the one claiming that this conflict is no worse than others.

I'm simply presenting a graph that argues against that and shows the rate of child slaughter is unprecedented.

So it's not the numbers its the rate? any and all urban conflict tends to kill a lot of people quickly, in the end this conflict will end in a month or two with 6 or 8000 dead children, less than most of the other conflicts we are currently living through that don't get so much as a peep on this board, that doesnt make this war less barbaric than Yemen or Syria, all wars are barbaric, the only exceptional thing about Gaza is it is the most densely populated area on earth therefore any war there no matter how it is conducted will kill vast numbers of innocent people, the good thing about Gaza though is it will be a very short war so in the end less people will die, if less kids die in Gaza than in Yemen that doesn't make Gaza 'better'

[Language]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Let's try again. Just trying to establish who you are.

Do you find the slaughter of thousands of innocent citizens including thousands of children by Israel disgusting barbaric and repulsive?

Does it really matter if someone answered yes versus no, to this question? It’s not always that simple, and dumbing it down and simplifying it to a one word answer doesn’t prove any sort of point.

Your opinions here are almost devoid of any contextual understanding. We all acknowledge that what is happening is terrible and it’s very sad when innocent lives are lost. But you live in some sort of mystical fairy land if you think what’s happening now wasn’t inevitable after what Hamas did. Or that any other country would have a different, more subdued approach.

If a gang of barbaric terrorists broke into any civilized country and did this below, along with murdering and kidnapping over a thousand people, you think the response would have been measured!?? You’re out of your mind.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/police...d-testimonies/

“Identified only as “Witness S.,” the survivor said she had seen terrorists gang-raping, mutilating and then murdering a young partygoer.

“He is here raping her,” S. was videotaped saying, “and then they pass her on to another person.” The terrorists were dressed in olive green uniforms, she added. The police showed video evidence that several Hamas terrorists had posed as Israel Defense Forces soldiers in order to get close to victims.

Confirming that the victim had still been alive during the rape, S. said that “she stood on her feet, she was bleeding from her back.”

Next, said S., one of the terrorists “slices her breast and throws it on the road, and they’re playing with it.”

“Afterwards,” S. continued, “someone really penetrates her and shoots her in the head before he finishes. It’s not like he ejaculates and picks up his pants… He shoots her in the head while he’s still inside of her,” she said.

Ben Mayor confirmed that police have identified the rape victim in this incident, now deceased.”


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[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Language

“Identified only as “Witness S.,” the survivor said she had seen terrorists gang-raping, mutilating and then murdering a young partygoer.

“He is here raping her,” S. was videotaped saying, “and then they pass her on to another person.” The terrorists were dressed in olive green uniforms, she added. The police showed video evidence that several Hamas terrorists had posed as Israel Defense Forces soldiers in order to get close to victims.

Confirming that the victim had still been alive during the rape, S. said that “she stood on her feet, she was bleeding from her back.”

Next, said S., one of the terrorists “slices her breast and throws it on the road, and they’re playing with it.”

“Afterwards,” S. continued, “someone really penetrates her and shoots her in the head before he finishes. It’s not like he ejaculates and picks up his pants… He shoots her in the head while he’s still inside of her,” she said.

Ben Mayor confirmed that police have identified the rape victim in this incident, now deceased.”


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We all understand that this is terrible as it’s very sad when innocent lives are lost, but it was inevitable.

[PsYcNeT]

I will re-iterate, regardless of what Hamas has done/is doing, you are not then obligated to support what Israel is doing.

And if you do wish to support what Israel is doing, then just wear it without pointing at Hamas. If you think the visceral brutality of murder warrants a response of death and displacement orders of magnitudes more severe, then just wear it because no one here is defending Hamas and no one has for the last month+, but many are defending Israel.

[_Q_]

Ongoing israeli military operation going on at Al Shifa Hospital in Gaza right now.

[Language]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I will re-iterate, regardless of what Hamas has done/is doing, you are not then obligated to support what Israel is doing.

And if you do wish to support what Israel is doing, then just wear it without pointing at Hamas. If you think the visceral brutality of murder warrants a response of death and displacement orders of magnitudes more severe, then just wear it because no one here is defending Hamas and no one has for the last month+, but many are defending Israel.

Ok, I’ll be one that wears it. I support what Israel is doing. But it’s difficult to not point this back to Hamas, when what is happening in Gaza is EXACTLY what they wanted to happen.

Israel had to respond, and it would be naive to think that they would risk even more lives of their soldiers going door to door, looking for Hamas, then carrying out strikes. This is not some sort of unanticipated reaction.


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[Bagor]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

So it's not the numbers its the rate? any and all urban conflict tends to kill a lot of people quickly, in the end this conflict will end in a month or two with 6 or 8000 dead children, less than most of the other conflicts we are currently living through that don't get so much as a peep on this board, that doesnt make this war less barbaric than Yemen or Syria, all wars are barbaric, the only exceptional thing about Gaza is it is the most densely populated area on earth therefore any war there no matter how it is conducted will kill vast numbers of innocent people, the good thing about Gaza though is it will be a very short war so in the end less people will die, if less kids die in Gaza than in Yemen that doesn't make Gaza 'better'

That's a fantastic bit of justification but doesn't take away from the fact that this is an unprecedented slaughter.

And no. If your projections are accurate then in three months it'll be second only to Syria.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1724186132806537409

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Language

Ok, I’ll be one that wears it. I support what Israel is doing. But it’s difficult to not point this back to Hamas, when what is happening in Gaza is EXACTLY what they wanted to happen.

Israel had to respond, and it would be naive to think that they would risk even more lives of their soldiers going door to door, looking for Hamas, then carrying out strikes. This is not some sort of unanticipated reaction.


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Sorry, why did Israel have to respond?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Sorry, why did Israel have to respond?

I mean, it seems untenable for them to allow Hamas to continue executing and kidnapping Israeli citizens.

I think based on past history you probably can't trust Hamas if they promise to stop.

[PsYcNeT]

Israel 1993-2023, apparently:

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I mean, it seems untenable for them to allow Hamas to continue executing and kidnapping Israeli citizens.

I think based on past history you probably can't trust Hamas if they promise to stop.

Lol, good call. Same strategy should work some century.

Where’s the wisdom over there? Oh right, there is none. The way you stop it is by treating them like human beings. Pretty straightforward. But they aren’t interested in stopping it, they’re interested in revenge. This emotional response, will just lead to more people suffering and being raped and dying in the end.

And we have like what, a million examples throughout history to back it up? You don’t achieve peace by killing people. At some point, one group has to have the courage to genuinely make actual, meaningful efforts to peace. This includes things like providing access for those items on the base of Maslows Hierarchy.

But nah, being dicks circa attempt 5,000,000 should work. What’s that saying about round pegs and square holes?

Looks like more Israelis will die.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by zunie75

Are you serious? Your stance is that the innocent should die if a member of their family is radicalized? How is this any better than a terrorists rationalization?

It isn't, it's disgusting. I hate reading his junk in this thread. So ugly.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by blankall

I'm hoping that something is lost in translation here, as English is not Pointman's first language.

Hopefully, he's getting at the fact that if you elect a group like Hamas into power, then the eventual outcome is war on your territory.

For the record, I would neve advocate purposely killing civilians, including the families of militants.

Edit:

Pointman, if you do believe that the best solution is totally wiping out the Palestinian people, what you believe is wrong. I hope you can do some soul searching and come to a conclusion that will actually lead to a peaceful resolution.

Nothing is lost in translation, he has very adequate, fluent discussions on a wide variety of topics in English. He knows what he's saying in English terms.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Leondros

I think over all of the years on this board we are all pretty clear that Pointman knows how to communicate in English just fine.



I do not think there is anything to be misinterpreted here. Pointman, an Israeli citizen believes that the message needs to be sent to Hamas and Hezbollah fighters by killing their family members (sons, babies, wives, whoever) so that other fighters think twice about joining the cause.

Yes, this is 100% what he's saying, no misinterpretation. It's monster stuff.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Lol, good call. Same strategy should work some century.

Where’s the wisdom over there? Oh right, there is none. The way you stop it is by treating them like human beings. Pretty straightforward. But they aren’t interested in stopping it, they’re interested in revenge. This emotional response, will just lead to more people suffering and being raped and dying in the end.

And we have like what, a million examples throughout history to back it up? You don’t achieve peace by killing people. At some point, one group has to have the courage to genuinely make actual, meaningful efforts to peace. This includes things like providing access for those items on the base of Maslows Hierarchy.

But nah, being dicks circa attempt 5,000,000 should work. What’s that saying about round pegs and square holes?

Looks like more Israelis will die.

Have you watched or read interviews with the families who lost loved ones or who had loved ones kidnapped on October 7, and considered the unprecedented brutality deliberately planned and committed by the Hamas scum? I’m sure your plan would be of comfort to them and Israelis continuing to live in the southern part of the country. A group whose leaders have stated they plan to commit similar atrocities in the future. And without Iron Dome the death toll and destruction would be significantly higher. You want Israel to stand down and make peace with these people who have no interest in peace or the continued existence of Israel?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Have you watched or read interviews with the families who lost loved ones or who had loved ones kidnapped on October 7, and considered the unprecedented brutality deliberately planned and committed by the Hamas scum? I’m sure your plan would be of comfort to them and Israelis continuing to live in the southern part of the country. A group whose leaders have stated they plan to commit similar atrocities in the future. And without Iron Dome the death toll and destruction would be significantly higher. You want Israel to stand down and make peace with these people who have no interest in peace or the continued existence of Israel?

This is waaaaaaay too easy, but what the hell.

Have you watched or read interviews with the families who lost loved ones or suffered living under deplorable apartheid conditions in a police state where they are third class citizens prior to October 7, and considered the unprecedented brutality deliberately planned and committed by the Israeli scum? I’m sure your plan would be to oppress them and Palestinians continuing to live under those conditions in the ANY part of the country. Israel's leaders have stated they plan to commit similar atrocities in the future. And without respect and equal human rights the death toll and destruction will be significantly higher for Palestinians. You want Palestinians to stand down and make peace with these people who have no interest in peace or the fair and equal treatment of Palestinians?

Both sides are at fault in this mess. BOTH. SIDES. The difference is Israel holds all the power here. They have the recognized state. They have governance control. They have the powerful military. They maintain the police. They set the conditions under which the Palestinians have to live. And most importantly, they are the ones who continue to set up settlements in Palestinian areas and disrespect what peace has been established. Israel holds all the power and plays its cards accordingly. It is exactly why the Palestinians have accepted help from a terrorist organization, because they have no power and Israel treats them as such. You want peace? Stop subjugating the very people you believe want to do you harm. You only incentivize them to do so.