I found and still do find the Hamas attacks on October 7 absolutely disgusting, barbaric and repulsive.
I also find the slaughter of thousands of innocent citizens including thousands of children by Israel disgusting barbaric and repulsive.
Can you say the same?
No, you are saying they are equal.
Israel does not rape innocent women, put babies in ovens, gouge eyes out or cut the breasts off of innocent women.
The point is that you find it EQUAL, when in fact it is not.
Though it is nice of you to not add 'equal' in the post I quoted, even though you've said it many times throughout this thread.
We can argue about Israel's actions all day long, and it is sad that innocent children are dying, but Hamas is at fault for that, as they started this conflict on Oct 7 with their barbaric actions. Hamas also uses all those innocent children you supposedly care so deeply about as human shields, shoot them in the streets when they try to escape, and brainwash them from an early age on to be zealous Jew haters. That is why every single death in this conflict is the fault of Hamas.
But then again, they have admitted as such, and have admitted that they will continue carrying out these barbaric acts, and that they don't care about the innocent children, but just care about exterminating Israel.
So even Hamas is under no illusion over what their mandate is. And yet you continue to remain delusional as ever about it.
"Equal."
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I'm not sure how Hamas being ruthlessly barbaric and Israel being more nebulously barbaric means that you have to support either of them.
"Both sides bad" doesn't mean they are equal, nor does it mean you have to support a "lesser evil".
On both sides, the majority of the population did not vote for the ruling party (in Gaza due to not even being born the last time an election was held for the most part).
The civilians are not to blame in this instance, so why justify governmental decisions on either side?
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Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
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Israel does not rape innocent women, put babies in ovens, gouge eyes out or cut the breasts off of innocent women.
The point is that you find it EQUAL, when in fact it is not.
Though it is nice of you to not add 'equal' in the post I quoted, even though you've said it many times throughout this thread.
We can argue about Israel's actions all day long, and it is sad that innocent children are dying, but Hamas is at fault for that, as they started this conflict on Oct 7 with their barbaric actions. Hamas also uses all those innocent children you supposedly care so deeply about as human shields, shoot them in the streets when they try to escape, and brainwash them from an early age on to be zealous Jew haters. That is why every single death in this conflict is the fault of Hamas.
But then again, they have admitted as such, and have admitted that they will continue carrying out these barbaric acts, and that they don't care about the innocent children, but just care about exterminating Israel.
So even Hamas is under no illusion over what their mandate is. And yet you continue to remain delusional as ever about it.
"Equal."
You could’ve just saved the trouble and said “no.”
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First post on this topic. I've read a lot over the past month since this tragedy happened. Unfortunately, I don't think a peaceful resolution is possible. I think a ceasefire is just temporary. The events occurring are tragic and we must accept this is a build up of the past 50 years. Hamas/Hezbollah will never stop an endless war against Israel.
I'm not sure how Hamas being ruthlessly barbaric and Israel being more nebulously barbaric means that you have to support either of them.
"Both sides bad" doesn't mean they are equal, nor does it mean you have to support a "lesser evil".
On both sides, the majority of the population did not vote for the ruling party (in Gaza due to not even being born the last time an election was held for the most part).
The civilians are not to blame in this instance, so why justify governmental decisions on either side?
Again, the actions of Israel, through government, local government, local settlers, etc are not at question here.
Bagor is claiming that Israel and Hamas are equal.
I have yet to see one Israeli rape a Palestinian and most a video about it.
Or put babies into ovens.
Or the dozens of other heinous acts that they committed and video taped, often while laughing.
War is hell. Innocent people die, especially innocent children. But when the US and allies were bombing ISIS in Mosul, and also killing innocent children, nobody went and called their actions barbaric, because everyone knew it was justified, while at the same time understanding that war is hell, and innocent children will die.
The ONLY reason anyone will claim that Israel and Hamas are equal, is because they view both as the same. Which they are not. Hamas is a terrorist organization, and needs to be eradicated from the face of the earth. To think that Israel is barbaric in carrying out this action after the events of Oct 7th is to deem Israel a state of terrorism, carrying out terrorist acts, which again, they are not.
We can sit here and debate Israel's actions all day long, and you'd be shocked how I would agree with most of the points people make. But Bagor has been posting this entire thread of how the actions are EQUAL.
So Bagor if you are wondering, before you go on the ignore list so I don't even have to scroll past your repulsive and disgusting comments, what Israel is doing is NOT barbaric, and is in fact 100% justified. The are within their right to eradicate Hamas, and every innocent child that dies, as sad as it is, that is 100% the fault of Hamas, and not Israel.
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Again, the actions of Israel, through government, local government, local settlers, etc are not at question here.
Bagor is claiming that Israel and Hamas are equal.
I have yet to see one Israeli rape a Palestinian and most a video about it.
Or put babies into ovens.
Or the dozens of other heinous acts that they committed and video taped, often while laughing.
War is hell. Innocent people die, especially innocent children. But when the US and allies were bombing ISIS in Mosul, and also killing innocent children, nobody went and called their actions barbaric, because everyone knew it was justified, while at the same time understanding that war is hell, and innocent children will die.
The ONLY reason anyone will claim that Israel and Hamas are equal, is because they view both as the same. Which they are not. Hamas is a terrorist organization, and needs to be eradicated from the face of the earth. To think that Israel is barbaric in carrying out this action after the events of Oct 7th is to deem Israel a state of terrorism, carrying out terrorist acts, which again, they are not.
We can sit here and debate Israel's actions all day long, and you'd be shocked how I would agree with most of the points people make. But Bagor has been posting this entire thread of how the actions are EQUAL.
So Bagor if you are wondering, before you go on the ignore list so I don't even have to scroll past your repulsive and disgusting comments, what Israel is doing is NOT barbaric, and is in fact 100% justified. The are within their right to eradicate Hamas, and every innocent child that dies, as sad as it is, that is 100% the fault of Hamas, and not Israel.
I wonder if the reaction is different now because people are fed up hearing about wars in the middle east and now the way Social Media is bombarding us with "news" about this war and extreme imagery and details about atrocities on both sides, its leading to a far greater reaction from people compared to what we would have seen maybe 5 years ago?
More just my thoughts on why its so different now than before. Do you know how many dead children pictures or Dead Israeli / posts I see on Instagram these days. It's disgusting. But its so provocative, its bound to bring out extreme reactions.
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And how many of “us” have had to live through even a fraction of what he has in the last two years? I can’t even begin to imagine the stress and heartache.
The war never affected him and when the thought of it did (conscripted) he fled. The hardest part was buying plane tickets (his words). My heart goes out to the ones truly affected by both conflicts and it's not easy suddenly uprooting ones family but besides living in two major wars in the last two years, (really f'n wild) his life was never that worse for wear, even got new citizenship and a great job.
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Again, the actions of Israel, through government, local government, local settlers, etc are not at question here.
Bagor is claiming that Israel and Hamas are equal.
I have yet to see one Israeli rape a Palestinian and most a video about it.
Or put babies into ovens.
Or the dozens of other heinous acts that they committed and video taped, often while laughing.
War is hell. Innocent people die, especially innocent children. But when the US and allies were bombing ISIS in Mosul, and also killing innocent children, nobody went and called their actions barbaric, because everyone knew it was justified, while at the same time understanding that war is hell, and innocent children will die.
The ONLY reason anyone will claim that Israel and Hamas are equal, is because they view both as the same. Which they are not. Hamas is a terrorist organization, and needs to be eradicated from the face of the earth. To think that Israel is barbaric in carrying out this action after the events of Oct 7th is to deem Israel a state of terrorism, carrying out terrorist acts, which again, they are not.
We can sit here and debate Israel's actions all day long, and you'd be shocked how I would agree with most of the points people make. But Bagor has been posting this entire thread of how the actions are EQUAL.
So Bagor if you are wondering, before you go on the ignore list so I don't even have to scroll past your repulsive and disgusting comments, what Israel is doing is NOT barbaric, and is in fact 100% justified. The are within their right to eradicate Hamas, and every innocent child that dies, as sad as it is, that is 100% the fault of Hamas, and not Israel.
Do you believe that the IDF doesn't commit any of these acts or things equally as heinous?
Would you change your tune if presented with evidence of this?
The war never affected him and when the thought of it did (conscripted) he fled. The hardest part was buying plane tickets (his words). My heart goes out to the ones truly affected by both conflicts and it's not easy suddenly uprooting ones family but besides living in two major wars in the last two years, (really f'n wild) his life was never that worse for wear, even got new citizenship and a great job.
To add to that saying as the word empathy was being floated around.
Surely he, more than most then should be the most empathetic to those displaced by conflict?
I wonder if the reaction is different now because people are fed up hearing about wars in the middle east and now the way Social Media is bombarding us with "news" about this war and extreme imagery and details about atrocities on both sides, its leading to a far greater reaction from people compared to what we would have seen maybe 5 years ago?
More just my thoughts on why its so different now than before. Do you know how many dead children pictures or Dead Israeli / posts I see on Instagram these days. It's disgusting. But its so provocative, its bound to bring out extreme reactions.
I have lived through 61 years of the Israeli Arab conflict, it has always been polarizing because traditionally Israel was the wests proxy and Egypt and Syria were the Soviets, the PLO and Yasser Arafat were the darlings of the left wing in the west, Europe particularly, seen as the same as Che Guevara, wearing the PLO pink headscarf was common in student unions when I was a teenager, of course in those days Islam wasn't radical, the PLO was barely religious
I wonder if the reaction is different now because people are fed up hearing about wars in the middle east and now the way Social Media is bombarding us with "news" about this war and extreme imagery and details about atrocities on both sides, its leading to a far greater reaction from people compared to what we would have seen maybe 5 years ago?
More just my thoughts on why its so different now than before. Do you know how many dead children pictures or Dead Israeli / posts I see on Instagram these days. It's disgusting. But its so provocative, its bound to bring out extreme reactions.
The immediacy of today’s social media has upped the emotional temperature of international conflicts. They feel more intimate for a lot of people than they did even 7 or 8 years ago.
What hasn’t changed is the spotlight nature of global attention. The public struggles to engage with more than one outrage at a time. Which is why media engagement with the war in Ukraine dropped of a cliff after Oct 7. And most conflicts where thousands of civilians are being killed every year aren’t on the public radar at all. Darfur, the Yemeni Civil War, the jihad in the Sahel - may as well be happening on Mars.
One of Hamas goals in the Oct 7 attacks was to push the Israeli-Palestinian conflict back onto the front pages. Mission accomplished.
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If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 11-14-2023 at 05:23 PM.
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I have lived through 61 years of the Israeli Arab conflict, it has always been polarizing because traditionally Israel was the wests proxy and Egypt and Syria were the Soviets, the PLO and Yasser Arafat were the darlings of the left wing in the west, Europe particularly, seen as the same as Che Guevara, wearing the PLO pink headscarf was common in student unions when I was a teenager, of course in those days Islam wasn't radical, the PLO was barely religious
I can see how it has always been polarizing. But this time it seems much more visceral. Graphic accounts of atrocities but now a lot of visual aids. Regular citizens posting pics and videos of their first hand accounts is going to challenge what we all feel.
The immediacy of today’s media has upped the emotional temperature of international conflicts. They feel more intimate for a lot of people than they did even 7 or 8 years ago.
What hasn’t changed is the spotlight nature of global attention. The public struggles to engage with more than one outrage at a time. Which is why media engagement with the war in Ukraine dropped of a cliff after Oct 7. And most conflicts where thousands of civilians are being killed every year aren’t on the public radar at all. Darfur, the Yemeni Civil War, the jihad in the Sahel - may as well be happening on Mars.
One of Hamas goals in the Oct 7 attacks was to push the Israeli-Palestinian conflict back onto the front pages. Mission accomplished.
I also find the opposite to be true. The amount of staggeringly horrible news and smartphone video content of attrocities that people see everyday have desensitized many into throwing up their hands and giving up caring about it.
Yes, this isnt a numbers game, how many kids die in a war depends on how long the war goes on for, this war will end in a month or so effectively, maybe 6 or 8 thousand kids will die, kids are still dying in Syria does that make the Syrian war worse than Gaza because it has more dead kids? they are all awful, how many kids die is pretty much random chance in a war
LOL! Before you cop out with your put me on the "ignore list" facade.
Simple yes or no?
Eh, he gave his answer, so you’re not going to pin him down with a yes or no:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
what Israel is doing is NOT barbaric, and is in fact 100% justified. The are within their right to eradicate Hamas, and every innocent child that dies, as sad as it is, that is 100% the fault of Hamas, and not Israel.
Which tbh is the answer anyone would guess from reading any of his posts.
Honestly, it’s a little bit exhausting to read the same thing over and over from these guys. Azure, Pointman, Manhattan, Beninho, etc, it’s all detailed descriptions of babies in ovens and how repulsive or awful anyone who joins a pro-Palestinian protest is or criticizes Israel or whatever. Bring up Israel, and it’s “Hamas this, Hamas that, terrorist sympathizers! All Hamas fault, and *oh yes sure it’s sad and whatever that babies are dying* BUT IT IS JUSTIFIED! Send a message!!”
These are the types of people that see people advocating for the murder of children and base their response on who is advocating for it. If they aren’t pro-Israel? “Repulsive.” If they are pro-Israel? Well, then anyone who calls THAT person’s position “repulsive” is just a big bully and oh by the way WHY ARENT YOU TALKING ABOUT HAMAS??
Thing is, I’ve seen a picture of a baby burnt to death by Hamas, and a picture of a baby blown in half by the IDF. Both were horrific. I actually have no problem calling them equally horrific, repulsive, and barbaric. If someone is the type of person who can look at those two images and cry for one while shrugging their shoulders at the other and saying “not the good guys fault” or worse “we need more of that!” then that speaks to who they are more than any game of “just admit it” will. And I’m comfortably confident that they’re only fooling themselves.
Whether they are grown up to admit it or not, these are the types of people that make war endless and enable human suffering. You don’t have to look much further than them to understand why neither side is lacking in people happy to keep this conflict going.
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