That is absolutely terrifying. Lord help us all if Trump even considers this for a second.
Would you actually be surprised? It has been so obvious for ages that he doesn't care about a free and fair election. How could anybody who has followed American politics the last 4 years actually be surprised by reading this anymore?
I will be more surprised if Trump doesn't take some wildly corrupt and illegal actions to undermine the election.
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I was speaking as a naive outside observer. I know Trump well, everyone. It was a statement about how disturbing our current political culture has become. The mere fact that it has become accepted is exactly what I was hoping to point out. This should not, and cannot, be the norm. We have to rebuke this sense of anti-democratic values across the board, and I sincerely hope that this election will be a referendum on that.
If I'm wrong, the great experiment in democracy is dead, and we will all have to deal in half measures going forward. That's a tragedy.
If I'm right, then there truly is hope for the human species to understand their own plight and make better decisions going forward.
I'm betting everything I have on the latter, and I hope to god I'm not wrong. That's the crux of what I was trying to get at.
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If the election is a free a fair election, I'm pretty sure Trump is gone. I just don't believe that's happening anymore.
At this point, there's a decent chance that democracy has already been lost. We're just waiting to find out if the undermining of the system that has been underway for years has been sufficient yet for it to be irreversible. This is why I think the discussion over polls is kind of silly. It's like discussing advanced stats to see which team has the edge in an upcoming game, but one of the teams has already paid off the refs and the score keepers. The stats may be useful in the aftermath to argue how the result couldn't reflect reality in a fair election, but the really important question is how the cheater that walks off with the prize is going to be forced to give it back. If nobody is willing and able to do so, it's over.
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He's gone January 20th whether he likes it or not. At that point he ceases having any power. This is not a "norm" or expected behavior, it's constitutional. If he refuses to leave the secret service will drag him out of the office. His support is grunts, police, and a large chunk of the populace, but regardless of what they play out in their macho fantasies, they're not going up against the army. If it ever got to that point, which it won't. He doesn't have the support of the command structure of his armed forces.
The real problem is that nothing Trump sold himself as to the people he duped was addressed at all. There were legitimate concerns he spoke about. People were dumb for thinking this lifelong con man we actually going to do anything about it, but still. That angst will not go away. The next one who taps into it will most certainly be drastically more qualified and intelligent.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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He's gone January 20th whether he likes it or not. At that point he ceases having any power. This is not a "norm" or expected behavior, it's constitutional. If he refuses to leave the secret service will drag him out of the office. His support is grunts, police, and a large chunk of the populace, but regardless of what they play out in their macho fantasies, they're not going up against the army. If it ever got to that point, which it won't. He doesn't have the support of the command structure of his armed forces.
The real problem is that nothing Trump sold himself as to the people he duped was addressed at all. There were legitimate concerns he spoke about. People were dumb for thinking this lifelong con man we actually going to do anything about it, but still. That angst will not go away. The next one who taps into it will most certainly be drastically more qualified and intelligent.
Don't underestimate the power of the cheat, Trump will do anything to avoid jail and the minute he's not President that's his eventual retirement home, his mentor is Putin who routinely gets 75+% of votes yet ask any Russian and they'll tell you they don't know many if anyone who votes for him.
The only hope is for Democrats is to take over the Senate and keep the House where election cheating will be a lot harder. after that he'll be fair game by using the constitution.
He's gone January 20th whether he likes it or not. At that point he ceases having any power. This is not a "norm" or expected behavior, it's constitutional. If he refuses to leave the secret service will drag him out of the office. His support is grunts, police, and a large chunk of the populace, but regardless of what they play out in their macho fantasies, they're not going up against the army. If it ever got to that point, which it won't. He doesn't have the support of the command structure of his armed forces.
The real problem is that nothing Trump sold himself as to the people he duped was addressed at all. There were legitimate concerns he spoke about. People were dumb for thinking this lifelong con man we actually going to do anything about it, but still. That angst will not go away. The next one who taps into it will most certainly be drastically more qualified and intelligent.
I don't know anymore. He has gotten away with so much that I didn't think any elected official would ever get away with. My wife always asks me if he can do this or that, and what is constitutional, but there isn't really straight forward answer anymore. The Constitution is only as good as the people will to enforce it, and my faith has been pretty damaged at this point.
The Dems are so timid and squishy, if Trump can create enough of a distraction to leave it up to the courts to decide whether or not certain votes should count or not, I think the Republicans could steal another election.
It's remarkable that he wasn't already removed from office after being impeached. At this point, anything is possible.
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 09-13-2020 at 04:11 AM.
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Holy crap, look at that crowd. You can almost smell the Covid.
As for Trump trying to hold onto power, the only way any of this ends is with a landslide Biden victory. But sadly, I don't think that's gonna happen. It'll be close like it always is, and as usual it will likely come down to f***ing Florida again where it's always a coin flip. If it looks like Biden is the winner, Trump will claim it's rigged, demand investigations, and it'll be tied up in the courts for months on end until the conservative-leaning SC eventually rules in his favor.
I have absolutely zero faith in America anymore. That country is beyond broken at this point, and I'm not sure it will ever be repaired.
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Who moved in next door honey? Antifa
You know who you should fear? Your neighbors
Protect us strong man! Drink water from a glass! Annihilate our neighbors! Identify a camel! Encourage voter fraud openly! Inject me with bleach and my pillows!
The demographic dumb enough to be controlled by these obvious and ham handed tactics can't die off soon enough.
America is on the slow ramp to hell with Trump tottering feebly towards the bottom
/rant
Holy crap, look at that crowd. You can almost smell the Covid.
As for Trump trying to hold onto power, the only way any of this ends is with a landslide Biden victory. But sadly, I don't think that's gonna happen. It'll be close like it always is, and as usual it will likely come down to f***ing Florida again where it's always a coin flip. If it looks like Biden is the winner, Trump will claim it's rigged, demand investigations, and it'll be tied up in the courts for months on end until the conservative-leaning SC eventually rules in his favor.
I have absolutely zero faith in America anymore. That country is beyond broken at this point, and I'm not sure it will ever be repaired.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the Trump strategists try to decide if the gain in support by holding a big rally will be greater than the loss of votes due to covid deaths/illness as a result. Can you imagine being the intern tasked with putting that powerpoint presentation together?
He's gone January 20th whether he likes it or not. At that point he ceases having any power.
I dunno, this strikes me as depressingly plausible.
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I dunno, this strikes me as depressingly plausible.
Not just plausible, but likely in my opinion.
As mentioned, Bush/Gore in Florida already showed that ultimately, it is up to the state courts to allow or disallow recounts. I don't think the Dems ever tested it the federal supreme court.
Trump has already shown he has no problem with election tampering. I mean, messing with the USPS just as mail in voting was starting pretty much sums up what he thinks of mail ballots.
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 09-13-2020 at 01:52 PM.
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I dunno, this strikes me as depressingly plausible.
This seems like a minimum of what can be expected. Trump has the capacity and motive to stir up much more chaos and disruption than just this.
The notion of saying he will be gone on Jan 20 because that's the law is a very hopeful and optimistic understanding of the relationship between power and the law. The law itself doesn't have any power. It depends upon enforcement. The military taking independent action to remove Trump is more believable, and that obviously only happens when there is a recognition of the complete breakdown of the law and some in the military are willing to step in and assert military control over government. That is the last offramp, and if that happens it's quite possible that it doesn't lead to a return of the traditional political system with peaceful transition of power to democratically elected leaders.
It's not like America is the first country in history to face these kinds of challenges. It's possible the US gets out of this without disaster, but the chances of disaster are already uncomfortably high.
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"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
Just think of all the people who need Trump in power for their own protection.
I wonder what would happen if Biden wins and Trump refuses to acknowledge defeat. Do other countries refuse to recognize Trump? Does Biden go into exile?
It's going to be fascinating to see what happens if the Dems don't defeat Trump on election night and need to rely on mail votes.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
It's going to be fascinating to see what happens if the Dems don't defeat Trump on election night and need to rely on mail votes.
Well, based on what Fareed is saying in that video, that is pretty much definitely going to happen - that is, any Biden win will be due to mail in ballots, which won't be counted by election night. So it doesn't sound like an "if".
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