Good service vs. Attractive servers

[Hockey_Ninja]

Springs. I find it funny that you claim to weight 98 lbs. Unless you are belimic or have some sort of super fast metabolism there is no way you are that skinny eating out at these type of places and going out so damn much.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

This is a lot less entertaining than I thought it would be.

I agree, then I noticed you were in the sin bin and I had a good chuckle.

So thanks for making this thread fun again!

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by GGG

So here is why you are wrong.

99.9% of people perfer a free refill to be brought to there table without them asking. .1% of people are bat #### crazy and dont.

Here's the other thing. From when I used to be a waiter, the single best way to check on your tables without appearing to be bothering them is to just bring them refills without them asking. Most of my waiting was at a truck stop where we served a lot of coffee, so I'd always walk around with my coffee pot in hand. That way if a table needs something they can easily let me know without me awkwardly interupt their conversation with "So, how is everything so far?"

So the irony Springs1 is that your mission in life is to complain about service levels, and then when somebody does something to try and improve service, you complain about seconds that are lost.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by Springs1

I ask for like 4-7 things at the end of my meal normally. For example, "I would like a box, the check, a bag, 2 containers for my ranches, and a to-go coke. 6 items total. The average server, in fact 99.9999% of servers would NEVER write down a list like that. They are too lazy to.

are like the rainman or something?

i find it quite amusing that you are all about the seconds being wasted at the resturant, yet your posts are very long winded .........

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Springs1

A lot of servers have that "It's not my table(not my tip)" attitude though.

Can you please post a statistical analysis or scholar writing to back up this statement.

I don't think "a lot" of servers do have that mentality. The board here agrees with me. Therefore we as a collective will need some sort of evidence to back up this claim.

Originally Posted by Springs1

Because the tip is for *****SERVICE******** as a whole, NOT "well our waitress was nice, but the other 2 people in the service wasn't. SO WHAT she was nice, she wasn't even there to serve us the food TWICE. She also could have controlled the ranches for the appetizer, which was 100% HER FAULT she could have brought those out ahead of time and avoided a waiter that could care less about reading the ticket. She could have also brought out the ranch for the entree beforehand. She also could have offered to pay these helpers a buck or two for their help, but NO, she didn't, so she got what she got.

It's not punishing the server. The server wasn't even serving us the food. She only served us our drinks and the check, that's it, so WHY should she get 20% for almost no "WORK", huh? That's not fair. The other servers did all of the work almost and she'd get more money, WTH? That's not fair and you know it.

So you're tipping one person on a team effort. If the people that bring you your food do a good job, the server's tip increases.

In a situation where tips are pooled, I'd agree. However that wasn't the scenario. The scenario was only the server gets the tip.

Let's stay on topic.

Originally Posted by Springs1

They can to a degree control their actions by MONEY. If that person knew they'd get an extra buck just for bringing out food each time, that's a lot of money at the end of the shift. In an hour, you could make $5 extra just bringing out 5 table's foods. Also, the waitress that was rude if she would have offered us refills and got them, she should have gotten $2 from our waitress for payment for helping out.

It is completely unreasonable and unacceptable to have a server managing peers. That is the manager's job.

In order to have this scenario work, the tip should go to the manager. It's not in a server's job description or authority to control the actions of other servers.

You can argue that it should be, or that the manager should oversee and be the one in charge of tip distribution. But most servers in restaurants have sections, you can't have the server from section A giving orders to server in section B.

What if you had Server B being told to get food and orders for the Server A? It works both ways.

Originally Posted by Springs1

Why? Rude workers is what it's called. Mean people of the world of workers. Lazy workers.

Because you're not solving any problem or really raising awareness. If I have a problem with a flight attendant on United Airlines, I'm not going to blast against the airline industry as a whole on every forum I can find.

Originally Posted by Springs1

I don't have to. Santa Fe Cattle Co. It's a chain restaurant like Outback or Texas Roadhouse kind of thing. Time was lunch time. Probably 11:30pm. or 12p.m. Not sure though.

Yes at this point you do. You're presenting an argument that is against the norm. The consensus is that most servers are reasonable, and human beings. Your argument is that service is rarely acceptable. We need evidence of this, otherwise you're talking at a wall.

I'm saying this to help your argument.

Like most reasonable people, if you give me the evidence you will persuade me.

Originally Posted by Springs1

It is when you have time and time again lazy, uncaring workers. It doesn't happen all the time, but it's so rare to see good, caring, and hard working servers.

Time and time again? As stated above, I need this to be demonstrated as in my experience, and the experience of the others here this is simply not true.

Originally Posted by Springs1

Refills being free doesn't mean they are wanted. It's not proactive, it's controlling and it's not the server's place to order for someone else without their permission to. Why do we get a menu if *WE* can't decide what *WE* want? Why are *WE* paying a tip if *WE* can't decide what *WE* want?

You can decide what you want.

No one is denying you this.

[QUOTE=Springs1;4623370]By the time they come by as you say in what I just quoted, they have already wasted my time and pissed me off.

No, time is wasted. Every single time you do an action for nothing, time has elapsed. Are you dumb? [/quote[

You don't seem to understand the difference between elapsed time and wasted time.

If you get your order at the same time, the process of how that happened doesn't effect you.

In the scenario presented, your drink arrived at the same time. Even if it takes an extra 6 seconds, that is based on a subjective time when seeing when your drink started to get low (not empty).

Also most customers have a refill of the same drink. So asking if you want a refill is taking up more time.

So the situation is A) bring a refill and the customer is happy; B) bring a refill the customer requests a different drink (which again is debatable if allowable) and the server gets it. Realistically the time to put the drink down and fill a new one is literally zero, as they can dump the unneeded drink after. You're stretching saying that every second is crucial in an environment that isn't an exact science.

No, because that has NOTHING to do with service what you are saying. I

Originally Posted by Springs1

don't pay for service based on things that aren't service related.

Colors aren't service. Are you dumb?

Service is part of atmosphere. Servers help set the atmosphere. I thought that was clear.

If you're complaining about service you're also complaining about a negative atmosphere.

Do you see how the two are connected?

Originally Posted by Springs1

You just ADMITTED that it takes longer. How about that one for ya? It DOES TAKE LONGER and sure the hell longer than 6 seconds, I guarantee you that.

Also, what if my entire party was like me that wanted that which let's say the party is a party of 7, getting 7 refills for nothing is ******VERY TIME CONSUMING**********! You sound like you have ZERO COMMON SENSE to speak of.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Even if it takes an extra 6 seconds you drink still isn't consumed.

Or do you stop drinking the Coke at a random time and sit waiting absolutely parched waiting for your Iced Tea?

If so, that's not a reasonable thing to do.

Originally Posted by Springs1

But I wanted my check a minute or two ago, NOT when you were at the soda station or kitchen, but when you were right by the computer by chose to go wayyyy over there and fill a glass with ice and drink.

I'm sorry, can you give me the layout of the specific restaurant you're referring to?

Also it is unreasonable to expect the check the moment you want it. Servers have to balance several tables. Yours isn't the only table. Part of the trade off of not having to do dishes, cook the food, is that you have a shared server. Things don't happen the moment they are desired.

Originally Posted by Springs1

There is time lost. Anytime you do something for nothing there is a time lost. Every second, ever minute counts. I gave a waitress a dollar tip for her handing side salads for people that weren't even in the building when we ordered our entrees because she decided off the same tray that our entrees were on she decided to give them theirs first when we ordered WELL BEFORE they were even in the restaurant even. That was mere seconds. The reason why I almost stiffed was because of the principle of it that she cut in front of our turn.

Time lost doesn't equate to a negative experience. Pro-activity should be encouraged. If you wanted a robotic service then get drive-thru.

If you don't want drive-thru realize that you aren't being served by robots.

Asking if every single customer wants a refill that is included in the price takes time.

If 90% of the customers want the same refill, then asking them is a waste of time to accommodate the 10% that want something different.

It makes more sense to accommodate the 90%.

Originally Posted by Springs1

If it's the same price, I haven't had a problem doing this at many restaurants. It's not fair if I get coke, but then want sprite to pay for a refill of a soft drink. A soft drink is a soft drink, which has free refills at most restaurants.

Where I live free refills aren't necessarily the norm. And a soft drink is not a soft drink. A smoothie is by definition a soft drink (as it doesn't have alcohol).

Some places do allow this, some don't.

You state it's not fair to order Coke and only get Coke. I'd also argue it's not fair to order Coke and expect something else. Especially if you order "Coke" and not order the "glass of soda pop" and request the first time to be Coke. Then you've ordered the glass and not the contents.

Some places have unlimited fries (Swiss Chalet has this promotion from time to time). It's unreasonable to order your quarter chicken with fries but then ask for salad as your next side. Salad is the same price but it's not fries, which you ordered.

Originally Posted by Springs1

As I said above, haven't had an issue with this.

So far not, that's fine. In fact that's great. But that doesn't mean it's universal.

Originally Posted by Springs1

NO, because it's common sense no stranger gets to ORDER for their customers, like DUH we get a menu for a REAL REASON. We are drinking it and paying for the service, so we should get to decide all things.

If you want refills without being bothered, *YOU* need to ask your server, not the other way around. You are just trying to get out of tipping well by testing the server honestly by not asking for what you want. If I want water, I ask for it. Some people think their server can read their mind.

Not if it's in the menu. You have to request something different from the menu.

In my experience, and most here, if you have water and it gets low the server refills it for you. It's odd to have to request it.

It's not the server commanding you, it's the server giving you maximum value for dollar for your order.

Servers base their actions of overall efficiency, which doesn't necessarily mean the most efficient thing if serving only one individual table.

Originally Posted by Springs1

They are in my service. Making me feel obligated to take it.

They are also in the service of the restaurant, and other customers. It's a balancing act, not just you specifically.

Originally Posted by Springs1

Bottomless doesn't mean the same drink, DUHH.

Generally it does. If I order a coffee, I can't switch to tea. If I order Coke I can't switch to beer.

If you do want to switch, especially where it's an unusual request, then it falls on the customer to ask for the switch.

Originally Posted by Springs1

No you need to read the definition of what a refill is:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/refill

Do you see anywhere it says it has to be the "SAME ITEM?"

A refill just means filling again. I fill a glass with water, now I am filling it with coke. That's REFILLING the glass. It doesn't have to be the SAME ITEM. You don't know what the meaning of the word refill means obviously, do you?

So NO, I ordered "a dr. pepper", NOT glasses and glasses worth. Remember, just because it's bottomless doesn't mean I HAVE to get refills. It's there if I want it, NOT I have to have it. You even said I didn't have to have it if I didn't want it that I could decline it. Now you are saying I have to have it. You are contradicting yourself here.

You ordered a Dr. Pepper, not a Coke, or Iced Tea.

I'm not contradicting myself as if I order a coffee I can't switch to tea, or beer.

If I go to East Side Marios and order an unlimited pasta bowl, I don't get to switch what the pasta is, and then at the end of the meal I don't get to take another type home. That's not realistic. You get refills of your order.

If they allow you to switch the drink, great, but by no means is it expected.

Originally Posted by Springs1

No, because that's one order. You aren't getting all of your refills at once are you? Then NO, I don't have to and how many is "bottomless" like 10, 5, what number? It's not a set number is it? So NO, I don't need to decline anything to them. I order ONE glass, NOT anymore than that when I am greeted.

Again you ordered Coke, not the glass. You're ordering the consumable not the serving device.

I think this is a fundamental area of disagreement here.

Originally Posted by Springs1

But I am not ordering more than one when I say "a Dr. Pepper", you aren't getting me more than one when I order it. According to your logic, I should be getting 20 refills at my table all at once.

Servers aren't mind readers. That's EXACTLY WHY THEY SHOULD ******ASK YOU IF YOU WANT THAT TYPE OF SERVICE OR NOT******.

But it is in the menu. If you read the menu that says free refills, then it is expected that you refill what you ordered.

If you ask for a Coke, you ordered Coke. If you ask for a steak you ordered a steak not a plate.

Originally Posted by Springs1

Not my job to ASSUME THEY WILL ASSUME. Most servers aren't and since my time is money in the service I will not waste TIME asking that since *I* am the person *PAYING* here, NOT YOU. If you want it your way, *YOU* pay my tip, got it?

Read the menu and see what it says.

Originally Posted by Springs1

It sure will make a HUGE DIFFERENCE that an order could be sent 2 seconds ahead of the next table's order. You have NO CLUE OF WTH you are talking about.

In this scenario clearly it's busy, and you have to account for that.

Originally Posted by Springs1

How is it "polite" to purposely delay someone from ordering? That's not nice and you know it. If you want things your way, may I suggest you pay *US CUSTOMERS* a tip if you want to control our time there.

Treating you like a human being is polite.

Originally Posted by Springs1

No, I don't give anymore money for them not writing things down. That just makes me unhappy in the service worrying if my order will come out wrong, because most of the times it has when servers didn't write things down.

While I agree it should be written down, docking someone for not taking your order how you like it, but getting it right isn't fair or reasonable either.

Hard to do that.



That's never happened. That would be the manager in most cases if the server didn't apologize.

In this question, yes, but not as high. Money isn't everything. I honestly rather have a sorry than a comp. That's just how I am. It's not about money. It's about someone being NICE and POLITE.

Originally Posted by Springs1

No, because that was him asking the manager and he offered us something we didn't want at first. I mean who wants that when they could have something off their bill? I want to eat the food I ordered, not whatever he was offering me. I wouldn't have been hungry for my food I ordered if I would have ate that stuff he offered.

The manager gave you a choice? Isn't that what you're arguing the whole time? Choice?

So bringing you a refill is mind reading, but taking money off the bill rather than an extra isn't mind reading.

You can't have it both ways.

I'd be happy with a free dessert.

Originally Posted by Springs1

If it's not what I wanted. If they guessed right, it depends if the rest of the service was good, then I won't, but if it wasn't good, that's more off the tip.

So there's inconsistency there. Just pointing that out.

Originally Posted by Springs1

Yes they should. That's why you go to a restaurant, because you are hungry, DUHH.

Hungry yes, but not starvation.

Originally Posted by Springs1

You need to be reasonable that you think you should be able to control our tip money. That time isn't wasted simply because you want something a certain way that means that we all have to wait longer for what we do want because of it. Time is time. If I grab a pencil out of a draw put it down and then grab a pen, that's 2 seconds of wasted time. Time is time. If I go to the kitchen from the bedroom to get a coke, but mean to grab a diet coke, I have wasted time.


It's unbelievable that you don't understand time.

I understand time, but effect of that time is what you seem to be missing.

Your example isn't a parallel. At a restaurant you're there for a relaxing meal. That means servers not rushing, running, and shoving to get you your coffee 2 seconds earlier. Servers are to be relaxing and friendly, if you are stressed because a server isn't running to your every need, you shouldn't be at a restaurant.

If you're worried about getting your drink 2 seconds sooner, then you belong in the drive-thru.



Now one more thing.

I've been polite and explained my point of view, and countered your arguments. I have done it very politely.

At no point did I call you dumb (which you said to me multiple times while not critically reading my post).

People here tend to think you're insane. I'm not saying you are. But, you need to actually respond and understand my argument in order to properly respond. By calling me dumb isn't showing that you don't.

So please, take moment and process what I have said here. You don't need to reply the moment you read it. I would prefer a well articulated, thought out response as opposed to an instantaneous one. Quality over Quantity (which is what this whole debate boils down to).

[dobbles]

ok, so i know this thread has been hijacked by springs1, but the original topic of beauty versus service really reminded me of this series of articles i had read recently. this is really long overall, but i think a great read, especially for anyone in the industry or even springs1

http://jayporter.com/dispatches/obse...rt-1-overview/

This is the first of a multi-part series detailing what I learned from operating our farm-to-table flagship restaurant, the Linkery, as a “no-tipping” restaurant that instead charged a fixed percentage for service, from 2006 to 2013. We also operated a sister restaurant, El Take It Easy, that followed the traditional tipping model, allowing for a fairly direct comparison.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by dobbles

ok, so i know this thread has been hijacked by springs1, but the original topic of beauty versus service really reminded me of this series of articles i had read recently. this is really long overall, but i think a great read, especially for anyone in the industry or even springs1

http://jayporter.com/dispatches/obse...rt-1-overview/

Fantastic article. My favourite part and directly applicable to our friend

A certain small number of very vocal men (and it was always men who were vocal about it) resented that we were not letting them try to exercise additional control over our team members. This was true even though compelling research has shown that servers do not adjust quality of service as a result of tips; instead the idea that the restaurant was not offering our servers up as objects of control, was heresy. For these people, the primary service they wanted from the restaurant was the opportunity to pay for favors from the server — much like the patron at a strip club pays the club for the opportunity to dangle bills in front a dancer for individual attention. The idea that a restaurant could legitimately want to be in a different business than a strip club, was not an idea these guests could countenance.

Springs1 it turns out is a outlier amoung her gender.

I do wonder why a restaurant cant just charge more rather than just not allow tipping. I assume that its because in any kind of guide or reviews the menu price would just be quoted and you dont want to appear 20% more expensive than your competetition.

I also bet that in groups who believe that control over the tip at the end improve service they would placebo themselves into believing that service is worse when the tip is fixed.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by GGG

I do wonder why a restaurant cant just charge more rather than just not allow tipping. I assume that its because in any kind of guide or reviews the menu price would just be quoted and you dont want to appear 20% more expensive than your competetition.

That's exactly it. I personally HATE the tipping system, I'd rather raise menu prices and pay staff more. But nobody wants to be the first to do it and have the business suffer for appearing more expensive.

[GGG]

Another great gem

“I don’t know,” she said. “I never look at the tips until the end of the night. It basically always evens out, if one table tips low, someone else tips high. You always make about the same percentage of sales.”

Another of our better servers joined the conversation to say that she did the same thing. Because, she said, “there’s too much to think about already. You have to not think about the money so you can take care of your tables.”

[calgarywinning]

The tipping system is interesting because basically you are giving 15% to 20% of everything you eat, drink or consume to the waiter/institution.

If there are 5 people, it's like having the waiter/waitress dine with you for free. If you were going to order a 40$ bottle of wine but decide on a 60$ bottle of wine does the service level change.

I personally think that good service is enjoyable and should be tipped. It's when it crosses the line into an expectation that I have a problem.

For example; if you are in an amazing restaurant and you want to order a reasonable bottle of champagne and the sommelier takes the time to guide you, find you something and it's within your price range and is mind-blowingly good he should be tipped.

If all your needs are looked after and then more by the waiter and they help you navigate to a great and memorable meal they should be tipped.

Maybe a hybrid system is the best, but I don't think it would entice waiters whose base was now higher to perform better.

I know in Australia tipping is not the norm.

Just my random thoughts.

[GGG]

Everyone should read that article posted above. It is the best opinion on tipping I have ever seen and explains Springs1 behaviour to a tee.

One of our managers emailed me around this time: “It would seem we’re on the right track. We’ll eventually weed out all the punishers…and then we can do our jobs.”

I think this is pretty much happened, within a few months of that review. People who come to restaurants to punish other people came to our place, discovered we didn’t offer that service, and moved on.

She is a punisher. She eats out not to enjoy eating out but for the feeling of power she gets when giving out the tips. Anyway that is my last clip from the article but its worth reading all six parts and post scripts.

[Springs1]

Originally Posted by strombad

It's just being a cheap, demanding scam artist who obsessively posts on a hockey message board about food.

You're a bad person.

EDIT: and a glutton. And cruel. And lack humanity.

I am not cheap. It's *SMART SHOPPING*. I mean WHY NOT GET EVERYTHING YOU CAN FOR FREE? WHY PAY FOR THINGS YOU DON'T "HAVE" TO?

I am NOT a "scam artist." The restaurant is stupid enough to give away free food, WHY not take what I can get? It's free. There's nothing wrong with it. Any customer is stupid and dumb not to get the best deal for their money(unless they really wouldn't eat it, but if they would, why not?) I mean even though literally there's no money exchange for that product as far as bread goes, you are still you are paying for the service. I know I give more in the service if I ask for more helpings of bread or refills unless the service was bad. I count that in the tip. I count when I get a lot of condiments that are FREE in my service when I am tipping unless the service was really bad.

You obviously don't count in your TIP if you get a lot of refills or if you get water(not bottled water) instead of an actual costing drink. We do, as I said unless the service was bad, meaning if my husband gets water, we will tip based on what the bill would have been plus tax before tipping, because water is just as much work as a coke is. In fact if he gets lemon, it's just like getting an iced tea. I am not factoring in the syrup changes or the newly fresh brewed iced tea in this since most of the time you aren't dealing with those, but if you do, those are things that water you wouldn't have to deal with, but still, you get my point.

That means if I get a coke to-go, especially if the server offered it to me, I am paying a little extra in my tip if the service wasn't bad. I am not paying the restaurant, but I am paying my server more for the extra work.

As far as soft drinks or iced tea goes, you are paying a price, so why not get as many refills as you can for your money if you want to drink that much soft drink or iced tea?

There is NOTHING wrong with getting the most for your money.

I am not a bad person for being a smart shopper. You are a bad person.

[Red John]

Sometimes things are technically legal but still considered socially wrong.

Ordering extra free bread to go and a Coke to go makes you look like a glutton and a cheapskate. You think it's being a smart shopper. But really, it's socially unacceptable. It's bad etiquette. Do you not realize that?

[pylon]

No, Springs1 is a mentally ill narcissist, and does not realize that.

[Springs1]

Originally Posted by Dion

There's free stuff and there's people I would call pigs. Drink refills and extra bread etc are given out on the expectation that the customer won't abuse or take advantage of the offering. Asking for a coke to go and taking that bread home is being a pig about it and over the top.

No, it's not. It's being a *******SMART SHOPPER**********! If you want to let them take advantage of your tip money and money you are paying for the soft drinks or iced tea, go ahead, be my guest. I will get the MOST food and drinks for my money I am paying. Even if the bread is free, the service sure isn't and I count that in my tip. Same thing if I bring an extra ranch home, same thing. I am at most places(some places do charge, but it's not common), if I ask for a lot of condiments, I am tipping based on the extras(unless the service was bad). In a way, I am paying for it to my SERVER, not the restaurant.

Drink refills and extra bread etc are given out on the expectation that the customer won't abuse or take advantage of the offering.

No, if restaurants didn't want to give away items, they would be smart enough not to. Especially not bread. Applebee's doesn't have free bread for example. They are a smart business not giving away food for free. Now they have free refills of soft drinks and iced tea, but that's because of competition reasons most likely that 99.99999% of restaurants have free refills on those, therefore that's why, but not every restaurant serves free bread. Chili's doesn't serve free bread either for example.

If they expected that, they wouldn't offer it, plain and simple. Also, if a lot of people do this, they usually increase the prices, so unless you never go back in your lifetime, which most people do, you pay for it SOMEHOW, SOMEWAY in the higher prices. I mean really, you honestly think it's really free if you go back and the next time the prices are higher? That means they have increased the prices to give that free bread and loads of refills. It also cost for the to-go cup as well. Unless you never go back again to that restaurant, you are paying for it somehow in the price increases. Why not get what I am paying for? That's the way I feel. It makes no sense to miss out on a free whatever if that is something I want.

Asking for a coke to go and taking that bread home is being a pig about it and over the top.

No, as I said before, servers have *OFFERED* us soft drinks to go before. At a Ruby Tuesday which is out of town for us, we had maybe gone there maybe twice before ever and this third time, the waitress we had **OFFERED** us soft drinks to go. We left a couple of extra dollars for her for doing so in cash since we had already signed the credit card slip. WHY? Because most servers don't do that, because they are too lazy to do that. That was nice she did that. It made our experience happier and better. So in a *WAY* I PAID FOR IT THROUGH HER TIP, NOT THROUGH THE RESTAURANT.

We have had other servers offer us soft drinks to-go and I even had at Outback a waiter and a waitress 2 different times we dined there that they gave us a fresh new bread TO-GO as well as kept the half eaten bread we had. That waitress also gave me new fresh condiments rather than giving me containers to put the condiments in even. She got a good tip and so did he.

If restaurant managers didn't want this, WHY are servers OFFERING it to us, huh? I seriously doubt they got in trouble for it since there have been a number of servers doing it.

It's not being a "pig", it's being SMART to get all you can for your money, even if you aren't paying the restaurant for it like for the bread, you are paying for the service though.

[Springs1]

Originally Posted by Red John

Sometimes things are technically legal but still considered socially wrong.

Ordering extra free bread to go and a Coke to go makes you look like a glutton and a cheapskate. You think it's being a smart shopper. But really, it's socially unacceptable. It's bad etiquette. Do you not realize that?

Then WHY are servers ****OFFERING******* things like this to us, huh?

It's not socially unacceptable. It's not being cheap, it's being smart to get all you can for your every penny you are paying. WHY NOT? What is sooo horrible about that? Seriously, if you want to waste your money, that's you. I won't.

[Springs1]

Originally Posted by pylon

No, Springs1 is a mentally ill narcissist, and does not realize that.

No, I am not either.

[Red John]

But if you are paying extra tip for your "free" drinks then how are you being a smart shopper?

[Red John]

Originally Posted by Springs1

Then WHY are servers ****OFFERING******* things like this to us, huh?

It's not socially unacceptable. It's not being cheap, it's being smart to get all you can for your every penny you are paying. WHY NOT? What is sooo horrible about that? Seriously, if you want to waste your money, that's you. I won't.

It sounds like you eat out all the time. How many times in your lifetime? Probably over 1,000 times? Just because a server once offered you an extra drink to go at a low-class chain restaurant doesn't make it socially acceptable. If it was socially acceptable every server would offer it to you...and every other person at the restaurant would be ordering it too.

[Springs1]

Originally Posted by Red John

But if you are paying extra tip for your "free" drinks then how are you being a smart shopper?

When the service is bad I am.

Also, when the service is good, I am paying someone that I *CHOOSE* to pay, not "LEGALLY HAVE TO PAY" meaning I can *CHOOSE* the *AMOUNT* I want and pay that. I am not obligated to pay the restaurant anything. I don't have to pay the server more either, but since it's more work, unless the service was really bad, I will pay them for the extra "WORK" they had to do. It's more work to get me more bread, cokes to-go, a bunch of refills, extra condiments, etc. I feel more work, the more tip you should pay to be *FAIR* to the server(unless the service was bad of course).