Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[nik-]

No one can make posts alluding to defamatory rumors.

No one can.

No one.

[Flash Walken]

uh oh, posts are disappearing

[schteve_d]

I hate this thread so much.



I know, I know....can't help myself for some reason.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Who's laughing here? (Just saw this 10 mins ago and is so effing awesome)


Flames lost to the Avs because we were butter soft. Brouwer and Neal combined isn't as scary as Looch.

I wonder how Flames fans would react if one of their players sucker punched a Flames player.


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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I wonder how Flames fans would react if one of their players got sucker punched?


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Poorly, I am sure. But we are fans. We are allowed to be contradictory, biased and irrational in our reactions.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I wonder how Flames fans would react if one of their players got sucker punched?


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I'd be thankful we had a guy who could go out and respond in kind.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I wonder how Flames fans would react if one of their players got sucker punched?


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I would hate if someone did that to a Flames' player.

So thank goodness our guy did it to them instead.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Except after the trade, counting the retention and noting the actual payment scheme it's not worse. Edmonton spends more in both cap and real dollars (the latter in a big way). The only thing worse is the NMC, which we've all discussed.

The NMC is being heavily downplayed in this statement but also ignores the fact that his contract is a lot harder to buy out. It’s objectively a worse deal and he is a much worse player. This being characterized as anything but a total failure of a deal is hilarious, and you’ll only find that here

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Don’t think buying out either player was an option.

I think Treliving used up all his free passes with ownership after buying out Brouwer and Raymond.

Cool, then we should be allowed to criticize the guy who made all of these deals, which is precisely what we’re doing. Treliving is starting to stack way more failures than successes, IMO, and he should be rightly criticized for it.

[PaperBagger'14]

It's great being a flames fan where no other players have taken liberties against ours in franchise history. It's also great that there has never been a questionable call made against us that could have had a significant outcome.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

The NMC is being heavily downplayed in this statement but also ignores the fact that his contract is a lot harder to buy out. It’s objectively a worse deal and he is a much worse player. This being characterized as anything but a total failure of a deal is hilarious, and you’ll only find that here

It's not harder to buy out at all. You've bought the false narrative that it's buyout proof, but it's not.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

The NMC is being heavily downplayed in this statement but also ignores the fact that his contract is a lot harder to buy out. It’s objectively a worse deal and he is a much worse player.

I think this is debatable.

This being characterized as anything but a total failure of a deal is hilarious, and you’ll only find that here

This is just false. In nearly every analysis I have seen or read of the trade there is a ready acknowledgement that James Neal will most likely outscore Milan Lucic, but that the Flames acquired the type of player in Lucic that they believe they need, and were not getting from Neal. I only see proclamations of fleecings and failures from the Edmonton media and over-invested fans. Plenty of actual hockey observers and pundits have noted that there is some value for the Flames in this deal.


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[DeluxeMoustache]

Well I may have to run to the store. I’m out of troll food

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think this is debatable.

[/I]
This is just false. In nearly every analysis I have seen or read of the trade there is a ready acknowledgement that James Neal will most likely outscore Milan Lucic, but that the Flames acquired the type of player in Lucic that they believe they need, and were not getting from Neal. I only see proclamations of fleecings and failures from the Edmonton media and over-invested fans. Plenty of actual hockey observers and pundits have noted that there is some value for the Flames in this deal.


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What is it, quantitatively, that makes the Lucic/Neal trade a win for the flames?

I can understand the retained salary being a positive but beyond that I struggle to find any positive of this trade.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

What is it, quantitatively, that makes the Lucic/Neal trade a win for the flames?

I can understand the retained salary being a positive but beyond that I struggle to find any positive of this trade.

It’s in the first 3490 posts

[Monahammer]

Anyone insisting on keeping this dead horse beatdown going is an Oilers troll imo. Let it die. It doesnt matter what neal does elsewhere, we are better for seeing him gone.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

What is it, quantitatively, that makes the Lucic/Neal trade a win for the flames?

I can understand the retained salary being a positive but beyond that I struggle to find any positive of this trade.

TLDR: Murray's pocketbook and powerplay goals don't actually count.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

What is it, quantitatively, that makes the Lucic/Neal trade a win for the flames?

I can understand the retained salary being a positive but beyond that I struggle to find any positive of this trade.

There are tonnes of responses which discuss why the Flames made this trade, but I never called it a "win for the Flames." I don't think it is a particularly good deal, but that is completely different from insisting that this is one of the worst Flames trades of all time. It is not. There is value for the Flames—not much, but definitely enough to have decided to pull the trigger.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Anyone insisting on keeping this dead horse beatdown going is an Oilers troll imo. Let it die. It doesnt matter what neal does elsewhere, we are better for seeing him gone.

I'm sure many will deride me for this, but my hockey rooting interests are as follows:

1. Chaos
2. Watching the Oilers fail
3. Flames success

We're all literally rooting for laundry, if that wasn't already abundantly clear from the 180 degree turns on Lucic.

I'm enjoying the chaos from this situation, but so far it is compromising my second favourite thing (I think there is a good chance they'll screw it all up, but not as certain as past years). IMO the trade wasn't the best thing for #3 either, but I don't think this team is yet composed to be playing in June, so NBD.

[VilleN]

In what ways is Lucic worse than Neal was for us last year. IIRC Neal did FA virtually every game he played. He skated around like he was dragging a piano behind him. Worst forward on the team by virtually all metrics. IMO Lucic has been far better than Neal was last year. Still not good, but it’s an incredibly low bar.