Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Who was laughing here?

Not Zadarov since that punch to the face was in that game.

And who cares about the regular season. The Flames were 3-0 against the Avs last year.

[jonkaupp]

Not more than a handful of people think that Neal staying here was a good idea. But to think that trading him for a worse player on a worse contract is acceptable is just silly. Sit his ass in the press box if there’s no other move, but don’t trade for the worst contract in the league. It was lunacy then, it is still lunacy today, and it will continue to be lunacy down the road. There is nothing redeemable about this trade.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ yeah, yeah. It will be lunacy in your opinion every day that you post about it. Not your first time posting the same thing and I’m sure it won’t be the last

Your opinion is officially noted.

Others are willing to evaluate further along in the season

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Not more than a handful of people think that Neal staying here was a good idea. But to think that trading him for a worse player on a worse contract is acceptable is just silly. Sit his ass in the press box if there’s no other move, but don’t trade for the worst contract in the league. It was lunacy then, it is still lunacy today, and it will continue to be lunacy down the road. There is nothing redeemable about this trade.

Except after the trade, counting the retention and noting the actual payment scheme it's not worse. Edmonton spends more in both cap and real dollars (the latter in a big way). The only thing worse is the NMC, which we've all discussed.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Except after the trade, counting the retention and noting the actual payment scheme it's not worse. Edmonton spends more in both cap and real dollars (the latter in a big way). The only thing worse is the NMC, which we've all discussed.

Well, there's also the question of which buyout structure you prefer—all in the first two years, or distributed more evenly across four?

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

From the things I have heard about behind closed doors which I will not repeat on this site, there was no chance to salvage James Neal in Calgary. I expect a similar disaster is on the horizon in Edmonton. Maybe it takes a little more time to hit, but it’s coming.

This sounds quite serious, especially when you're expecting the same thing to happen in Edmonton.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Well, there's also the question of which buyout structure you prefer—all in the first two years, or distributed more evenly across four?

I don't see either being bought out, so I didn't factor it. But sure. When doing that note that Neal's contract costs $11.5M in real dollars to buyout at June 15 2020. Lucic's costs $3M. And yeah, the cap hit is more significant for Lucic if you do that in the first three years and after that it's significantly smaller. So, pros and cons but the buyout cost weighs in Calgary's favour.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by pepper24

He won't score 50 in Edmonton, Calgary or any team but if he returns to his standard 20+ goal season like every season except last year then I care. I care a lot as the Flames can use that secondary scoring.

I think he could have easily done 20+ goals for most of his contract in Calgary after a bad year. 2 long playoff runs take a toll. With a full summer of training we're seeing vintage James Neal again. I care about that as a Flames fan and now seeing our rivals taking advantage of that.

If vintage James Neal is tapping home backdoor one timers while being completely useless 5 on 5 then yes, we’re seeing vintage James Neal.

There’s more to hockey then potting a few easy McDavid and Draisaitl setups. Neal doesn’t really bring anything more.

Edmonton can have him. It was good riddance after last season and it still is. One of the most useless Flames I’ve seen in the past 20+ years. If you think Neal improves our team you must have been blindfolded all last season.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Well, there's also the question of which buyout structure you prefer—all in the first two years, or distributed more evenly across four?

Don’t think buying out either player was an option.

I think Treliving used up all his free passes with ownership after buying out Brouwer and Raymond.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Except after the trade, counting the retention and noting the actual payment scheme it's not worse. Edmonton spends more in both cap and real dollars (the latter in a big way). The only thing worse is the NMC, which we've all discussed.

The player is also worse. The player kind of factors in in how bad a contract in.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Don’t think buying out either player was an option.

I think Treliving used up all his free passes with ownership after buying out Brouwer and Raymond.

After a couple years are up, a buyout of Lucic costing something like $1.5M total and saving about that much in cap space is probably conceivable.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nik-

The player is also worse. The player kind of factors in in how bad a contract in.

a. I'm not sure that's going to be proven out long term. If Neal dries up or is otherwise a problem and Lucic does some good in a bottom 6 role, then what everyone thought about the players will have occurred.

b. But moreover, the argument above was "worse player on a worse contract" which separates the two.

[nik-]

Lucic is a smoking crater of a player. Lets stop pretending. Even ignoring the player, protecting him for expansion or hoping he'll honor some assumed agreement (which there has been no indication of other than speculation) makes it a worse contract.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nik-

Lucic is a smoking crater of a player. Lets stop pretending. Even ignoring the player, protecting him for expansion or hoping he'll honor some assumed agreement (which there has been no indication of other than speculation) makes it a worse contract.

You are judging it on a different basis then. Which is fine. But I'd say Brouwer's a worse contract then judging by what he brings to the team.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by activeStick

This sounds quite serious, especially when you're expecting the same thing to happen in Edmonton.

Let me just say this: it was enough to completely change my mind about James Neal.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by nik-

Lucic is a smoking crater of a player. Lets stop pretending. Even ignoring the player, protecting him for expansion or hoping he'll honor some assumed agreement (which there has been no indication of other than speculation) makes it a worse contract.

Ok. You think he sucks. And that his contract is bad. Lovely.
I don’t think anyone is in love with the contract. And I don’t see anybody here celebrating his on ice with.

And the point is what?
How has he cost the team so far?
Has he contributed any less than James Neal did last year?

Or are we shouting at clouds?

[Flash Walken]

Is it a good look for a mod to be talking about things that the mod group would otherwise warn us not to discuss?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Ok. You think he sucks. And that his contract is bad. Lovely.
I don’t think anyone is in love with the contract. And I don’t see anybody here celebrating his on ice with.

And the point is what?
How has he cost the team so far?
Has he contributed any less than James Neal did last year?

Or are we shouting at clouds?

Are you expecting a bunch of smoke blowing in here? Why would you deliberately come into this thread and then get annoyed at discussion.

That seems silly.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Let me just say this: it was enough to completely change my mind about James Neal.

Well what was it then? This kind of stuff is so silly where people have inside info on players and then play the "if you knew, woah!!, but I can't say" game.

Either something can be shared or keep it to yourself, imo.

[Oling_Roachinen]

But then how will we enjoy the "I know something you don't know!" posts?