2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Ashasx]

What does 'not at all hard to play against' mean? Just because Backlund isn't a big giant bruiser that doesn't really exist in today's NHL doesn't mean he isn't hard to play against.

Backlund is as hard to play against as anyone on the team, and the stats dictate it.

[Cobra]

Am I missing something?
Are we a good team that needs to stay the same?

My answer is no.
We need to change this team and you must trade assets to get assets back.

Bennett is hard to play against you must keep your head up at all times.
Chucky, Mangy. Dube great compete level and tough to play against.
This is what we need.

[Enoch Root]

so trade everybody else?

[Jiri Hrdina]

I'm not opposed, by any stretch, to trading Backlund. I just found the application of the word "soft" to be strange. I don't see him as a soft player at all. I assume you largely equate softness to physicality?
Which I don't. I look at a guy like Nik Lindstrom and wouldn't describe him as soft. (not comparing Backlund to Lindstrom - but Lindstrom to be is the modern day example of a "hard player" who doesn't rely on penalties and physicality to accomplish that)

[ForeverFlameFan]

I'd rather trade Monahan than Backlund, and I think the majority agree with me.

Monahan could be dealt to a team that has the cap space to get him, but we really need a 1C or a 1C stopgap if we're dealing Monahan.

[Love]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

4th for Halls rights, sign him 6 x $7,750,000
Gaudreau, Bennett, Kylington for Couturier, Gostisbehere, 2nd
Hanifin for Zacha, Carrick
Monahan, 19th overall for Ristolainen, Thompson, 8th overall

Draft Hendrix Lapierre at 8th overall (Bergeron comp)

Sign Lievo 1 x $1,700,000
Sign Soucy 1 x $800k
Sign Reider 1 x $750k
Sign Talbot 2 x $3,500,000
Sign Mangi 2 x $2,500,000
Sign Thompson 1 x $874k (QO)
Sign Gawdin 1 x $787k (QO)



Hall - Couturier - Lindholm
Mangi - Backlund - Tkachuk
Dube - Zacha - Lievo
Lucic - Ryan - Thompson

Gawdin, Reider

Giordano - Ristolainen
Gostisbehere - Andersson
Valimaki - Carrick

Soucy

Talbot
Rittich

$890k cap space left

Not a fan of Risto really, but he's big, can skate, logs minutes, and produces offense. He and Ghost might turn our end into a tire fire, but they'd put up points lol

I like a lot of the moves you made. Lundell at 8 though, please.

I can't see Philadelphia with how successful and young and homegrown their team is looking to throw the whole roster in shambles by making a blockbuster trade.

[camm13]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Not at all hard to play against, not a good face-off man, terrible till #19 came along, part of the core that needs to change

Have you heard of the backlund bump?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Love

I like a lot of the moves you made. Lundell at 8 though, please.

I can't see Philadelphia with how successful and young and homegrown their team is looking to throw the whole roster in shambles by making a blockbuster trade.

Yeah you wouldn't think Philly would move Couturier, Gostisbehere I imagine they would move in a heart beat.

I've said that I can see a Couturier trade if they plan on moving Giroux back to C, and in that proposal they are also adding Bennett. Plus you can't forget that they have two very good young center prospects as long as Patrick's migraines are improving.

Gaudreau - Giroux - Voracek
Lindblom - Hayes - Konecny
JVR - Bennett - Farabee
Laughton - Frost - Patrick

Provorov - Niskanen
Sanheim - Myers
Hagg - Kylington

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I'd rather trade Monahan than Backlund, and I think the majority agree with me.

Monahan could be dealt to a team that has the cap space to get him, but we really need a 1C or a 1C stopgap if we're dealing Monahan.

Okay, you want to trade our top two Cs, where do we get new, better ones?

I think a more likely scenario is that we add another C by trading a winger. If Backlund were the #3, things would look a lot better.

Also, if playoff Bennett is able to carry on into the regular season, that too would strengthen the C position.

But I don't see how trading away our Cs solves the problem.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by bax

Ran through the Flames off-season on CapFriendly- tough to gauge salaries with COVID and a flat cap, but here is what I came up with. Go easy on me.

Derek Ryan to LA for a 4th and a 5th (could be any team)
Rittich to Minny for a 2nd and 3rd (again, could be any team in need of a goalie)
Georgiev to Calgary for a 2nd and 3rd and sign for 2 years x 2.125

Sign Hall 7 years x 8.25
Sign Demelo 3 years x 1.9
Sign Logan Shaw 1 year x 0.75
Sign Sbisa 1 year x 0.7

Re-sign Gawdin 1 year x 0.7
Re-sign Kylington 2 years x 0.85
Re-sign Rieder 1 year x 0.7
Re-sign Mangiapane 3 years x 3.25

Hall - Bennett - Tkachuk
Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Dube - Backlund - Mangiapane
Lucic - Shaw - Rieder
Gawdin

Hanifin - Andersson
Giordano - Demelo
Valimaki - Sbisa
Kylington - Yeselin

Talbot
Georgiev

Gives the Flames two top tier scoring and a real solid third line as well. Ideally you would want a better d-man to pair with Valimaki- maybe there is somebody better out there you can find for cheap. To me Demelo is kind of like a Brodie lite. Bennett and Backlund can be swapped depending on who is going.

80.9 cap hit including buy outs.

Why wouldn’t the team that traded for Rittich simply use the same assets and trade for Georgiev who is not only better but according to your plan willing to sign for less and longer?

Makes no sense unless you are a Flames homer.

[sureLoss]

In Scott Burnside's latest Athletic article, he says that several sources have said that they believe the Coyotes and Hall are close to a deal to keep him in Arizona.

https://theathletic.com/2019151/2020...e-first-round/

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by New Era

So? Who cares. I was speaking of style and expectation.



Irrelevant comparison. 1st overall versus late first rounder. One has shown a much better development curve and a capacity to score at each level he's played at. One has been thrown in the deep end and played with top end talents, while the other has been brought along slowly and had to earn his way through the system. I look at styles of play and these two players are not even remotely close to each other.



Except he doesn't show that type of game. Not even flashes. He doesn't have that offensive instinct to make the jump IMO. He's going to be a good player, but I don't see an offensive threat in him like people had hoped. I think this even goes back to what scouts were saying about him. Solid player.



I think it would be a massive failure. We have a Hischier on the team and we need a gifted offensive talent, preferably in the middle. We don't get that in this deal and we're giving up out two best producers. We're giving up two bonafide first line players and not receiving anything of that ilk in return. The three players coming back scored 103 points this past season. Monahan and Gaudreau put up 106 in a down season for both of them. That's a loss. Unless that draft pick turns into a special player the Flames gave up a first line for some second and third liners. Even if you believe Hischier has upside, he's a downgrade from Monahan, a center we are demanding we upgrade on. Don't like this at all. Way too much risk involved and does not address the needs of the hockey team.

There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin. Hischier has played with top end talent? He didn't even get 1st line PP time with the Devils let alone play with high end talent. When? Once at the all Star game where he looked fantastic. Considering you don't even think Sam Bennett is an NHLer or will even be in the league in a few years I am just a tad skeptical of your ability to judge hockey talent.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

In Scott Burnside's latest Athletic article, he says that several sources have said that they believe the Coyotes and Hall are close to a deal to keep him in Arizona.

https://theathletic.com/2019151/2020...e-first-round/

Why would Hall not go to UFA at this point like he has claimed all along that he was going to do? Unless Arizona is throwing an unbelievable amount of money at him I highly doubt this is true.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Icon

I'm quite content if Gustafsson goes elsewhere. It seemed like any/every time he got the puck in his own end it resulted in a turnover, and he didn't produce enough offensively for me to overlook that.

I don't mind Gustafsson but anything more than $2 million is a mistake. He's a bottom pairing defenseman, below average defensively and is adequate on the PP. I didn't see him being a difference maker on the PP. Using Andersson on PP1 would be perfectly fine.

[Petert]

Allan Walsh likes to stir up the pot, but at this point I think MAF can be had for a song.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Petert

Allan Walsh likes to stir up the pot, but at this point I think MAF can be had for a song.

Some decent options for trade.

Murray, Fleury, Binnington?

[bax]

Originally Posted by Poster

Why wouldn’t the team that traded for Rittich simply use the same assets and trade for Georgiev who is not only better but according to your plan willing to sign for less and longer?

Makes no sense unless you are a Flames homer.

Change the picks, up, alter the salary a bit, it was just an example.

I don’t even know if Georgiev is better than Rittich. I only included the goalie swap because I think the relationship between Rittich and the org might be soured now. You can just keep him as well and it will still work.

[Pacem]

Ward stays (sigh)
Gadreau traded to Pittsburgh with a goalie coming back.
Hall signed for 7 x 9m
No significant ufa dmen brought back.

Roll with what we got and hope the younger guys improve. Not what I want to happen but what I could see happen.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin. Hischier has played with top end talent? He didn't even get 1st line PP time with the Devils let alone play with high end talent. When? Once at the all Star game where he looked fantastic. Considering you don't even think Sam Bennett is an NHLer or will even be in the league in a few years I am just a tad skeptical of your ability to judge hockey talent.

So Nico Hischier playing with Palmieri and Hall were not top talents? Because those were his linemates for the last two seasons. Hischier logged the second most ice time per game for a forward this season behind only Taylor Hall. Also got the 6th most PP minutes per game on the team. If you look at last season's ice time stats, there's Hischier with the 4th most ice time for a forward, and the third most PP time per game behind Hall and Palmieri, meaning he was on the 1st PP unit. The only reason he didn't get first PP unit this season was because of the introduction of Jack Hughes, which says more about Hischier than Hughes. But hey, keep spinning your little narrative that Hischier hasn't played with anyone of consequence or hasn't got a fair shake on special teams, even if it is a fabrication.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by New Era

So Nico Hischier playing with Palmieri and Hall were not top talents? Because those were his linemates for the last two seasons. Hischier logged the second most ice time per game for a forward this season behind only Taylor Hall. Also got the 6th most PP minutes per game on the team. If you look at last season's ice time stats, there's Hischier with the 4th most ice time for a forward, and the third most PP time per game behind Hall and Palmieri, meaning he was on the 1st PP unit. The only reason he didn't get first PP unit this season was because of the introduction of Jack Hughes, which says more about Hischier than Hughes. But hey, keep spinning your little narrative that Hischier hasn't played with anyone of consequence or hasn't got a fair shake on special teams, even if it is a fabrication.

Hall played 63 games as a Devil over the last 2 seasons.

Palmieri is a nice player, but his career highs are 27G and 57P. Compare that career best with a random year for the Avs (NM's rookie year):

Spoiler!

Duchene 70
Landeskog 65
ROR 64
MacKinnon 63
Stastny 60
E Johnson (D) 39

Hall 93
Hischier 52
Palmieri 44
Butcher (D) 44
Bratt 35
Wood 32

It's not so much that Hischier's linemates are no good, it's that the whole Devils team isn't. Palmieri and Hall (when healthy) are fine. But it's just an easy team to gameplan against when the secondary threats are: Gusev, Zajac, Bratt, Zacha, Wood, Hughes (Zajac's had 26, 46, 25 pts since Hischier's been on the roster. Gusev is a wildcard with 44 pts. The rest of the guys are 30pt players).

Young player battles injuries and struggles to find consistency on a terrible team that has also been plagued with injuries.


I have no idea how Hischier will pan out. I think the realistic downside for him is a Koivu. Realistic upside a Barkov/Toews type. Most likely somewhere in between like an ROR/Couturier - where it just takes a while to fully come together.