[PGT] Rangers 3 - Flames 1

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You're right and you're wrong.

You're right that Smith hasn't been Vezina caliber at home. Hence our brutal home record. You're wrong that Smith hasn't been vezina Caliber on the road. .944 road SV% will win you a lot of games that you shouldn't win.

Well they don't give out a road Vezina award so I am right

Smith has been very good but not vezina caliber

its not even debatable, he wouldn't even be in the convo

I am not for one second blaming the season on him, just saying overall the goal tending has been average (average would be good enough with more scoring)

Very good Smith and terrible backups

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Well they don't give out a road Vezina award so I am right

Smith has been very good but not vezina caliber

its not even debatable, he wouldn't even be in the convo

I am not for one second blaming the season on him, just saying overall the goal tending has been average (average would be good enough with more scoring)

Very good Smith and terrible backups

Smith has been elite. To suggest otherwise is to ignore both the numbers and what we have seen on the ice.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

Smith has been elite. To suggest otherwise is to ignore both the numbers and what we have seen on the ice.

I already said he was top 10, that seems elite...he is nowhere near the vezina though, sorry...we can pick this up again when the vezina votes come down

backups are likely worst in the NHL

[ReinhartonD]

I don't think Rangers throwing in the towel means they'll be easier to beat. No expectations means some guys' games might actually improve, for a little while.

What sucks the most is working with an Oilers fan who responds to the rightful derision of the crash of that over-hyped mess by pointing out that it will likely be the Oiler games that cost the Flames the playoffs. If they had all 6 of those points, they'd be in sole possession of 3rd place in the division now.

I agree a bunch of guys could be rotated out to give some prospects a look, and if playoffs become clearly out of reach, that likely might happen, but I expect this year the order will come down to do everything possible to win enough to keep the lost 1st round pick from possibly becoming a lottery win for the Islanders.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ReinhartonD

I don't think Rangers throwing in the towel means they'll be easier to beat. No expectations means some guys' games might actually improve, for a little while.

What sucks the most is working with an Oilers fan who responds to the rightful derision of the crash of that over-hyped mess by pointing out that it will likely be the Oiler games that cost the Flames the playoffs. If they had all 6 of those points, they'd be in sole possession of 3rd place in the division now.

I agree a bunch of guys could be rotated out to give some prospects a look, and if playoffs become clearly out of reach, that likely might happen, but I expect this year the order will come down to do everything possible to win enough to keep the lost 1st round pick from possibly becoming a lottery win for the Islanders.

Not just those Oiler games...Flames have blown so many games they dominated/controlled. They could easily have 5+ more wins...how would 10 points look right about now?

[browna]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Agree with pretty much everything you're saying in this thread, except the bolded: Flames had started winning before the stick toss (which was initiated by a lazy practice after a win). They won a few more after that, then slumped. I still maintain that the stick toss did little to nothing, as evidenced by players laughing it off in interviews later that day.

Stick toss was after the NYE game, which Flames had won. Prior to that win the Flames had lost 3 in a row, 6 of the last 8, and won only 4 of 13 overall in December. Brutal losses to SJ, Anaheim LA and Minnesota,where the team was at some point ahead, and/or tied in the third period, and found ways to lose each, or, as importantly, in a few earlier Dec wins, gave those team a bonus point into OT they don’t deserve. Multiple points lost there.

TReliving dealt with the strange Hamilton situation, told Jagr to get 100% healthy before trying to play again, which set the wheels in motion, and told GG that any excuses he had in Jagr or Hamilton was removed, and he himself better ship up and get this team to the level they should be. So, he cues up the dramatics and it works and the Flames win each game until the January break.

And then lose the next 4, including a loss to worst team in league at the time Buffalo, and collapse against the Oilers again, and just winning 5 of 16 up to now since the 7 game winning streak ended. Brutal losses to Vegas here at home. 4 points after the post break, pre all star games, and the Vegas chokejob game after the all star break, meant the Flames got 4 points in those 5 games, which should’ve been closer to 9 or 10 points by beating Buf and Edm, and getting at least a point vs Vegas at home rather than losing both points in the last 2 mins.

All without having to play much better than they did in each of this games as they were all tight.

So the poor results in December and giving free points away to division rivals got masked by the stick throw and a 7 game win streak, because the same issues that got GG on the hotseat about his teams not taking things to the next level have come right back to him the last 16 games since the big streak ended the 3rd week of January.

[dino7c]

The coaching staff is GONE

People keep acting like Tre is defending the coach/players...from what I hear the guy is furious. There is a reason he didn't spend any assets at the deadline and from all accounts he was trying to make a major hockey trade but nobody wanted to deal.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Sam Bennett sucks.

Everyone knows that if you put Bennett with Gaudreau and Monahan it will be amazing.

It's stupid Gulutzan who just doesn't see it.

All that top line needs to be successful is an opportunity to play the 'yotes and their backup goaltender every night.

1 Goal (monahan, powerplay, assists to tkachuk and stone), 0 assists in the last 4 games for that line.

Jesus Christ, a Ferland injury is crippling this team's offense.

3 goals in their last 3 games for the Flames. Don't win many hockey games like that. Surprisingly, they lost those 3 games.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The coaching staff is GONE

People keep acting like Tre is defending the coach/players...from what I hear the guy is furious. There is a reason he didn't spend any assets at the deadline and from all accounts he was trying to make a major hockey trade but nobody wanted to deal.

From what you hear? I’m intrigued

(And hopeful)

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Everyone knows that if you put Bennett with Gaudreau and Monahan it will be amazing.

It's stupid Gulutzan who just doesn't see it.

All that top line needs to be successful is an opportunity to play the 'yotes and their backup goaltender every night.

1 Goal (monahan, powerplay, assists to tkachuk and stone), 0 assists in the last 4 games for that line.

Jesus Christ, a Ferland injury is crippling this team's offense.

3 goals in their last 3 games for the Flames. Don't win many hockey games like that. Surprisingly, they lost those 3 games.

lol this got me fired up until I read the rest...Bennett got his top line time and looked like the same player he always does. An average NHLer at best

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

From what you hear? I’m intrigued

(And hopeful)

Just from things reporters who follow the team closely have said on and off the record...apparently he was furious before the deadline so you gotta think that has gone up a few notches.

Really though Tre's career is on the line next he likely has one more hire

[Jetfire]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The coaching staff is GONE

People keep acting like Tre is defending the coach/players...from what I hear the guy is furious.

Do you have more details on this? Not calling you out, but just curious.

Edit: Just saw your response after I had already asked.

[gunnner]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Just from things reporters who follow the team closely have said on and off the record...apparently he was furious before the deadline so you gotta think that has gone up a few notches.

Really though Tre's career is on the line next he likely has one more hire

Yep. He removed a jack adams coach who overacheived with a bad roster/goaltending, and inserted his own guy with a much better roster that hasnt progressed and looks lifeless often. If he was throwing chairs after being swept by the ducks, he is going to be tossing couches or boston sized chairs at least if we miss the playoffs.
He has to get the next coach right.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by gunnner

Yep. He removed a jack adams coach who overacheived with a bad roster/goaltending, and inserted his own guy with a much better roster that hasnt progressed and looks lifeless often. If he was throwing chairs after being swept by the ducks, he is going to be tossing couches or boston sized chairs at least if we miss the playoffs.
He has to get the next coach right.

Flames didn't have bad goal tending the one year Hartley made the playoffs. Hiller was good and Ramo was better than the backups this season

Honestly Hartley sucked, so does GG though

[gunnner]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames didn't have bad goal tending the one year Hartley made the playoffs. Hiller was good and Ramo was better than the backups this season

Honestly Hartley sucked, so does GG though

Agreed on both points. I dont think Hartley was the right guy long term but you could also argue he deserved another year as the goaltending was awful in his final season. Moral of the story is Treliving needs to get the next guy right.

[browna]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames didn't have bad goal tending the one year Hartley made the playoffs. Hiller was good and Ramo was better than the backups this season

Honestly Hartley sucked, so does GG though

One wonders that if Hartley didn’t make the playoffs that year, if this team may be farther along overall. Hartley got an extension because of making that playoff run but Treliving would’ve preferred, as the new guy, to have cut ties with him, which was of course harder to do post playoff series victory.

But if Hartley didn’t make it, there was a different pool of recently fired coaches to choose from in summer 2015. Babcock (never going to get him), Bylsma, Julien, McLellan,Todd Richards, Tippett.

Question impossible to answer is if the playoff experience in 2015 (and failing then in 2016 to make the playoffs) was better for development of some of the players vs going through another year of Hartley only to miss the playoffs the next year (ie wasted) vs how they would’ve done in 2016 with a new coach.

And then if having that established, hand picked coach of the GM for 2015-16 would have brought a better executed and more continuitous plan that may have succeeded in getting the team to the playoffs in 2016...and potentially the team is leaps and bounds ahead because of which particular coach was available in 2015 and not available anymore in 2016 when BT chose GG. And of course the players on the roster now would have 3 seasons under that different coach now as part of that plan as opposed to flailing under GG this second season.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Ok yeah Has Mony done a thing tje last three games? You think he is a 1st line Centre?

Is John Tavares a first line centre? Have a look at his last 4 games.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Is John Tavares a first line centre? Have a look at his last 4 games.

Any basically the same stats overall...

also, what other option is there? Flames need to focus on things that are actually realistic

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by skcli

I am in the same boat. Leaving on March 13th for 2 weeks thinking I will miss some good hockey. Now I am glad that I can take sometime off following this team. Hopefully I can still entertained by some good old time playoff hockey in April, but not with the Flames.

I am in the boat heading the other way. I have over two weeks in Calgary from March 30. Not sure I’m going to bother with the Edmonton and Vegas games now.

I have never spent more time fast forwarding through games or just even not watching as I have this season. But what annoys me most is that this organisation is killing my passion for the game off the ice even more that on it.

With this style of hockey, that is quite the achievement.

The belligerence of the ownership group, Ken King and aided by Bettman has really angered me. They have treated this city like a joke. Taken years to come up with a completely unacceptable and unattractive proposal in the worst part of the town imaginable.

Then when the city doesn’t roll over they almost literally take their ball home in a sulk. But not before muttering threats and sticking their nose into the mayoral race.

Then we get served up this garbage on the ice?

They had better change their ways. Ive loved this team from day 1, but they are making it very hard now.

[Angelino]

I am hoping Treliving and Burke are fired after the season. You have to get at the root of the disease to save the patient and correct the problem.

Flames fans should hope the unprotected pick ends up as a lottery winner. This is the easiest way real change will happen.