[Trade] Seattle trades Pitlick to the Flames for a 2022 4th round pick

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

1.75M for 1 year is a palatable contract. Hard to say if you could find something comparable in free agency.

The term is the key. Sure, the Flames could have grabbed a similar UFA without giving up assets, but they likely would have had to offer at least two years.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

That is not true only 1 of the last 4 yrs they have surplus

Since July 1, 2017, Treliving has traded 9 picks: 1, 1, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7

Since July 1, 2017, Treliving has acquired 9 picks: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4

He hasn't run a deficit over the last 4 years, nor did he in the 3 years before that (edit: actually he did). Over the last 4 years he's added an additional 4 picks in the top three rounds and lost 4 picks in the last four rounds.

This includes this most recent trade, and does not include trades where the initial pick traded had conditions that went unmet resulting in no draft pick changing hands.

This deficiency myth is just that (edit: over the last four years). Over his entire tenure, Treliving has done the following:

1st round -2
2nd round =
3rd round =
4th round +1
5th round -1
6th round -1
7th round =

EDIT: Capfriendly did me dirty! There was a bug! This definitely wasn't user error! So anyways, Treliving ran a deficit during the first three years, but has since come out equal in trades. The most egregious error is, obviously, Hamonic. Without that trade alone which also resulted in losing Hamonic for nothing, Treliving is equal over the course of his tenure.

[GioforPM]

4th rounders make the NHL about 10-11% of the time. And then they are usually bottom of the roster. So there’s that.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Since July 1, 2017, Treliving has traded 9 picks: 1, 1, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7

Since July 1, 2017, Treliving has acquired 9 picks: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4

Between 2014 (when he was hired) and June 30, 2017, Treliving traded 8 picks: 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 6

Between 2014 and June 30, 2017, Treliving acquired 11 picks: 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7

He hasn't run a deficit over the last 4 years, nor did he in the 3 years before that. Over the last 4 years he's added an additional 4 picks in the top three rounds and lost 4 picks in the last four rounds. Previous to that, he added an additional 4 picks in the last four rounds while losing one pick in the first three rounds (which was a 1st).

This includes this most recent trade, and does not include trades where the initial pick traded had conditions that went unmet resulting in no draft pick changing hands.

This deficiency myth is just that. Over his entire tenure, Treliving has done the following:

1st round -1
2nd round +2
3rd round +2
4th round =
5th round +1
6th round -1
7th round =

This just makes me hate Treliving even more.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I guess with him and Ritchie on the 4th line we could be looking at a good beating being laid nightly on the opponents

[keenan87]

Not horrible. Not awesome. Meh, 4th isn't that big of a price and it's only 1 year term.

[really?]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There's still multiple spots open to competition.

If the young guys can't take the spot from guys like Ritchie, Froese, Pitlick, etc. then they don't deserve the spot.

Injuries happen, trades and signings still yet to come. Pitlick doesn't take anyone's spot away if they deserve a spot.

Reasonable thoughts (as usual). I would gather Sutter is fully on board with an infusion of youth, but rushing guys into the league can hinder development, and isn't conducive to building a solid culture. My guess is Sutter is all about an attitude adjustment for next year, so obtaining guys who sacrifice on the ice are necessary to establish that foundation. They feel Pitlick fills that mold, and for at least a season he is here to help guide the younger guys in that direction. Certainly the goal every year is to win, but Darryl Sutter is a smart man, and probably has his sights set beyond next season.

This is a solid, though clearly unspectacular move. If the Flames were simply focused on next season, then maybe you need an upgrade on this player, but I would think this move is part of a bigger plan to actually build something that has a serious window beginning in 2-3 years.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by neo45

They are -6 on draft picks that have actually happened under Brad according to my quick count

But that sort of ignores quality vs quantity. Five picks in 2018 doesn’t seem that bad until you realize 104 players went before we made a selection

Overall I generally think it’s smart to trade players for picks and dumb to trade picks for players. Brad has done fine doing one and has repeatedly looked foolish doing the other

I think there is universal agreement that the Hamonic deal was a bad one, for most, in the long-term.
So at what point can we put that down and focus more on the decisions being made now?

[dino7c]

If he played in Toronto this would be a big deal

[neo45]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This deficiency myth is just that. Over his entire tenure, Treliving has done the following:

1st round -1
2nd round +2
3rd round +2
4th round =
5th round +1
6th round -1
7th round =

Doesn’t seem to add up

2nd’s went out for Hamilton (x2), Lazar, Hamonic (x2), And Elliot

2nd’s came in for Glencross, Baertschi, Hudler, Russell, and Bennett

So where is +2 coming from? Reto Berra preceded Brad and the Kylington 2nd came at the cost of two thirds, so curious what I could be missing to get to +2

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Since July 1, 2017, Treliving has traded 9 picks: 1, 1, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7

Since July 1, 2017, Treliving has acquired 9 picks: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4

Between 2014 (when he was hired) and June 30, 2017, Treliving traded 8 picks: 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 6

Between 2014 and June 30, 2017, Treliving acquired 11 picks: 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7

He hasn't run a deficit over the last 4 years, nor did he in the 3 years before that. Over the last 4 years he's added an additional 4 picks in the top three rounds and lost 4 picks in the last four rounds. Previous to that, he added an additional 4 picks in the last four rounds while losing one pick in the first three rounds (which was a 1st).

This includes this most recent trade, and does not include trades where the initial pick traded had conditions that went unmet resulting in no draft pick changing hands.

This deficiency myth is just that. Over his entire tenure, Treliving has done the following:

1st round -1
2nd round +2
3rd round +2
4th round =
5th round +1
6th round -1
7th round =

2020- 8 picks +1
2019- 5 picks -2
2018- 5 picks -2
2017- 5 picks -2

It’s clear they have been running with deficit until last year

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And acquiring Patrick does not preclude addressing the RW situation in the slightest

It doesn't, but Treliving was seemingly aggressive and immediate about finding a Nordstrom replacement in Pitlick. However, when it comes to fixing an actual problem with the Flames (i.e. no natural RWs in the Top 6), it takes 2+ seasons for him to try fixing it

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

4th rounders make the NHL about 10-11% of the time. And then they are usually bottom of the roster. So there’s that.

Mayber, but you never know who might be a Gaudreau or Brodie until you actually use the 4th rounder. The late draft is a raffle ticket, and the more raffle tickets you have, the better.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Since July 1, 2017, Treliving has traded 9 picks: 1, 1, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7

Since July 1, 2017, Treliving has acquired 9 picks: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4

Between 2014 (when he was hired) and June 30, 2017, Treliving traded 8 picks: 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 6

Between 2014 and June 30, 2017, Treliving acquired 11 picks: 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7

He hasn't run a deficit over the last 4 years, nor did he in the 3 years before that. Over the last 4 years he's added an additional 4 picks in the top three rounds and lost 4 picks in the last four rounds. Previous to that, he added an additional 4 picks in the last four rounds while losing one pick in the first three rounds (which was a 1st).

This includes this most recent trade, and does not include trades where the initial pick traded had conditions that went unmet resulting in no draft pick changing hands.

This deficiency myth is just that. Over his entire tenure, Treliving has done the following:

1st round -1
2nd round +2
3rd round +2
4th round =
5th round +1
6th round -1
7th round =

Except there's more than 2 teams in the league and "deficiency" and "surplus" only make sense relative to what the other teams are doing.

Led by Treliving, the Flames have had fewer draft picks (50) than all but five teams since 2014.

In that same time span, Calgary has also had fewer first-round picks than every team except Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, and Washington. The major difference, of course, is that those teams have leveraged that draft capital into sustained playoff success and Stanley Cups.

https://www.tsn.ca/seven-years-into-...cess-1.1631065

Adjusted for the value of the picks it doesn't look much better for the Flames since 2012, when the Flames were supposed to have gone through a rebuild (from Dom at the Athletic):



I don't care about this trade that much but we at least should have the facts right, and the facts are that the Flames have leveraged the future for at least a decade now.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Mayber, but you never know who might be a Gaudreau or Brodie until you actually use the 4th rounder. The late draft is a raffle ticket, and the more raffle tickets you have, the better.

I would imagine they have a notion who’s around the 4th round even now.

Sure lots of raffle tickets are nice. So is a cheap, decent, defensive RHS. And if I’m Treliving, selfishly, am I around in 2 years to make the pick, much less 5 years when that pick may or may not be in the NHL.

[N-E-B]

For a 4th it’s not too bad. I’ve come around to the trade a bit. Wasn’t a fan upon first hearing the idea. Glad it wasn’t a 3rd or higher.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I would imagine they have a notion who’s around the 4th round even now.

Sure lots of raffle tickets are nice. So is a cheap, decent, defensive RHS. And if I’m Treliving, selfishly, am I around in 2 years to make the pick, much less 5 years when that pick may or may not be in the NHL.

I don’t think “desperate GM mortgages future to try and save job” is the best supporting argument for this move

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by neo45

Doesn’t seem to add up

2nd’s went out for Hamilton (x2), Lazar, Hamonic (x2), And Elliot

2nd’s came in for Glencross, Baertschi, Hudler, Russell, and Bennett

So where is +2 coming from? Reto Berra preceded Brad and the Kylington 2nd came at the cost of two thirds, so curious what I could be missing to get to +2

You're right actually, I completely screwed the 2014-2017 period somehow. I'll edit the post.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You're right actually, I completely screwed the 2014-2017 period somehow. I'll edit the post.

I also don’t think trading up and down at the draft should be included in the analysis

Like sure you added a third rounder and didn’t give up a first, but you made the first round pick worse

Just my .02

[DylanScores]

We have 13 players signed and adding a bottom 6 RW without giving up too much is a depth move. We have $20M in cap available.