[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If Huberdeau is a poor/slow skater, though, moving away from a run and gun style which prioritises speed, zone entries, and pressure is probably beneficial, no?

If he’s slow, hitting 115 points in a run and gun style is probably an incredible feat. Imagine how he would do with more time.

I don’t know how it’s all going to turn out for him here, like I said, I’ve got very tempered expectations. Darryl Sutter hadn’t coached a 100 point scorer since something like 1994. That’s like 28 years in between and it took a very special year from the top line doing very special things to achieve that.

Huberdeau has a lot of great attributes that makes him a productive player. But I think it comes down to the way he checks in Darryl’s that’ll make or break him. The Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk line may very well have been the greatest checking line and most connected line I may have ever witnessed.

It’s probably why they all ended up around +60 as well, they gave up nothing and took it to their opponents and a lot of that stemmed from how they checked in every zone. We’ll just have to see how Huberdeau does in that department.

[Psytic]

Not blazingly fast, not slow either. Looks like average NHL speed. I think people are blowing this out of proportion.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I don’t know how it’s all going to turn out for him here, like I said, I’ve got very tempered expectations. Darryl Sutter hadn’t coached a 100 point scorer since something like 1994. That’s like 28 years in between and it took a very special year from the top line doing very special things to achieve that.

Huberdeau has a lot of great attributes that makes him a productive player. But I think it comes down to the way he checks in Darryl’s that’ll make or break him. The Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk line may very well have been the greatest checking line and most connected line I may have ever witnessed.

It’s probably why they all ended up around +60 as well, they gave up nothing and took it to their opponents and a lot of that stemmed from how they checked in every zone. We’ll just have to see how Huberdeau does in that department.

2021-2022.
Coach: Darryl Sutter
100 point players: Gaudreau, Tkachuk.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Not blazingly fast, not slow either. Looks like average NHL speed. I think people are blowing this out of proportion.

More comfortable that he was blessed with Ron Francis like hands and Ron Francis like speed than if he had Paul Ranheim hands and Paul Ranheim speed.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I think the team trading the pick has the option of sliding it if they want. So, presumably if the lottery win wasn't particularly high, they might let the Flames keep it instead of risking disaster the next year.

I would write that option in if I was the team (Florida)... if things slide this year, they could really slide in 2026, the further out the pick, the more uncertain things become I would think.

[SuperMatt18]

Huberdeau's skating reminds me a bit of Draisaitl.

Maybe not the quickest first step but strong edges and can be deceptively quick and get behind the defense.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I don’t know how it’s all going to turn out for him here, like I said, I’ve got very tempered expectations. Darryl Sutter hadn’t coached a 100 point scorer since something like 1994. That’s like 28 years in between and it took a very special year from the top line doing very special things to achieve that.

Huberdeau has a lot of great attributes that makes him a productive player. But I think it comes down to the way he checks in Darryl’s that’ll make or break him. The Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk line may very well have been the greatest checking line and most connected line I may have ever witnessed.

It’s probably why they all ended up around +60 as well, they gave up nothing and took it to their opponents and a lot of that stemmed from how they checked in every zone. We’ll just have to see how Huberdeau does in that department.

No 100 point scorers until last year. But Iginla had 98 and 94 points with a lot less help on his line.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Instead of looking at one time frame, let's look at all of them. Here is where Huberdeau (and Gaudreau), for the last 5,4,3,2 and 1 years:

5 years: 7th (8th)
4 years: 4th (10th)
3 years: 3rd (10th)
2 years: 3rd (5th)
1 year: 3rd (2nd)

No question that he is one of the top 5 offensive players in the league (ahead of Gaudreau) over the last 5 years.

And last year would at best be a coin toss - I mean they had the same points with our guy getting more goals - I'd certainly rank Huberdeau ahead of Gaudreau regardless who we have now, but by the thinnest of margins.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

I would write that option in if I was the team (Florida)... if things slide this year, they could really slide in 2026, the further out the pick, the more uncertain things become I would think.

Yeah Florida doesn't have a ton coming up the pipeline after Lundell and Denisenko.

No first in 2022, 2023, 2024. That team could be in bad shape by the time 2025/2026 come around.

Edit: Looking back and Panthers have moved a lot of draft capital.

2025:
1st: Traded
2nd: Still in possession

2024:
1st: Traded
2nd: Traded

2023:
1st: Traded
2nd: Still in posession

2022:
1st: Traded
2nd: Traded

2021:
1st: Samsoskevich: Still in org
2nd: Nause: Sill in org

2020:
1st: Lundell: Still in org
2nd: Heineman: Traded to Calgary

2019:
1st: Knight: Still in org
2nd: Kolyachonok - Traded to Phoenix

2018:
1st: Denisenko: Still in org
2nd: Noel: Still in org

2017:
1st: Owen Tippett - Traded to Philly
2nd: Heponiemi - Still in org

2016:
1st: Borgstrom - Traded to Chicago
2nd: Mascherin - Did not sign


2015:
1st: Crouse - traded
2nd: Traded - Jagr

They have most of their core locked up and Ekblad, Barkov, Tkachuk, Reinhart, Bennett, Vergaeghe, Duclair, Forsling are all 26 or younger, but there is some risk on that roster and not a lot of assets over the next couple years to move, and not a lot of picks still on the farm waiting to get recalled.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No 100 point scorers until last year. But Iginla had 98 and 94 points with a lot less help on his line.

Iginla was 3rd and 12th in scoring those years.
3rd and 5th in points per game over those years.

Sutter is fine coaching scorers.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I don’t know how it’s all going to turn out for him here, like I said, I’ve got very tempered expectations. Darryl Sutter hadn’t coached a 100 point scorer since something like 1994. That’s like 28 years in between and it took a very special year from the top line doing very special things to achieve that.

Huberdeau has a lot of great attributes that makes him a productive player. But I think it comes down to the way he checks in Darryl’s that’ll make or break him. The Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk line may very well have been the greatest checking line and most connected line I may have ever witnessed.

It’s probably why they all ended up around +60 as well, they gave up nothing and took it to their opponents and a lot of that stemmed from how they checked in every zone. We’ll just have to see how Huberdeau does in that department.

I'm not sure I'm picking up your angle now. The problem was that he was slow, now the problem is that he might not be as good at checking as Gaudreau, a player infamous for his unparalleled checking ability around here?

The whole "hadn't coached a 100 point guy since 94" thing is pretty irrelevant, too. Seems like you're trying to spin it. He's one of maybe 5 coaches in the past 25 years that has coached two in the same year, so you could spin it that way just as easily. There are only 24 players that have done it since 2000. A hair over one a year, but Darryl is well known for getting the most out of his players. I don't seen any connection there.

You can temper your expectations as much as you want, totally fine, but you're picking the most irrelevant points and those that are blatantly misinformed to temper them. So it doesn't seem logical.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No 100 point scorers until last year. But Iginla had 98 and 94 points with a lot less help on his line.

Watching those years... it seems like Iginla was our only scorer at times, and to think he was under 100 points amazes me today. (more goals than assists was the difference between 115 Johnny).

[Manhattanboy]

Thank goodness Tre pulled this off for Darryl. Was afraid he would have nothing to come back for.

Really looking forward to his takes on all of this. Would love to have been able to listen in on all the calls back to the farm the last few weeks.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

Watching those years... it seems like Iginla was our only scorer at times, and to think he was under 100 points amazes me today. (more goals than assists was the difference between 115 Johnny).

dead puck era played a huge role too. Iginlas 52 goals and 96 points in 01/02 is to me a much bigger accomplishment than those 115 points that Gaudreau put up last season. Just take a look at the rest of the league that year:

Most goals in 01/02:
52 - Iginla
41 - Murray, Guerin, Sundin
40 - Naslund

Most points in 01/02:
96 - Iginla
90 - Naslund
85 - Bertuzzi
80 - Sundin
79 - Sakic, Jagr

complete dominance.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No 100 point scorers until last year. But Iginla had 98 and 94 points with a lot less help on his line.

Thought that’s what I meant by the 28 years + top line having a special season bit, but I guess I wasn’t clear.

Also, Darryl didn’t coach Iggy in those years 98 and 94 point seasons. Thought that was Playfair and Keenan. If I remember correctly, Iggy put up 67 points under Darryl the previous season and when Playfair introduced his more open system, Iggy’s offensive game blossomed the next season.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Thought that’s what I meant by the 28 years + top line having a special season bit, but I guess I wasn’t clear.

Also, Darryl didn’t coach Iggy in those years 98 and 94 point seasons. Thought that was Playfair and Keenan. If I remember correctly, Iggy put up 67 points under Darryl the previous season and when Playfair introduced his more open system, Iggy’s offensive game blossomed the next season.

I don’t think Playfair’s system was much different. Keenan’s was.

But the point is not who coached Iginla to those totals (if you can even call it that). It’s that Sutter coached a guy who was that capable, without any issues.

[SuperMatt18]

And Sutter’s system here is a lot different than it was in 03/04 and 05/06. And I’d even say different than it was in LA.

Faster and more fluid than those teams were. Even more emphasis on playing quick and getting the puck back quick.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I'm not sure I'm picking up your angle now. The problem was that he was slow, now the problem is that he might not be as good at checking as Gaudreau, a player infamous for his unparalleled checking ability around here?

The whole "hadn't coached a 100 point guy since 94" thing is pretty irrelevant, too. Seems like you're trying to spin it. He's one of maybe 5 coaches in the past 25 years that has coached two in the same year, so you could spin it that way just as easily. There are only 24 players that have done it since 2000. A hair over one a year, but Darryl is well known for getting the most out of his players. I don't seen any connection there.

You can temper your expectations as much as you want, totally fine, but you're picking the most irrelevant points and those that are blatantly misinformed to temper them. So it doesn't seem logical.

No, what I was saying based on my previous reply to a poster was that I too was surprised to see how below average his skating appeared to be. But being a slow skater doesn’t necessarily prevent a player from producing 100 points (i.e. Matthew Tkachuk).

But based on Darryl’s system, which is a checking style system, that’s what drives your offensive production as evidenced by the top line this year who checked like no line I’ve ever seen before.

So with said, I don’t know how Huberdeau will respond to a new coach, new system and new linemates. But historically, with how few 100 point producers that Darryl has produced and all the things I mentioned, I’m not expecting Huberdeau to knock it out of the park. That’s why my expectations for him will be tempered going into the season. I’m just saying, I think it’d be unfair to expect 100 points from him this coming season given what he’s up against.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t think Playfair’s system was much different. Keenan’s was.

But the point is not who coached Iginla to those totals (if you can even call it that). It’s that Sutter coached a guy who was that capable, without any issues.

I was probably too young to remember that year, but I’m pretty sure Iggy did have some issues with his 05-06 season. He finished the year ranked 57th in league scoring and for a guy who was touted as the one of the league’s premier players going into that season, his offensive game appeared to be pretty stifled.

[Bingo]

I don't think any of the three get 100 points next season (Tkachuk, Gaudreau or Huberdeau)