Israel declares war on Hamas

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

It's funny you mention the UN, without actually addressing what I tried to tell you. Palestinians aren't a part of Israel. They don't pay taxes to Israel, that's why there's a much lesser obligation towards them. The Arab Israelis, 2 Million of them, live just fine, and they have the same civic rights and duties.

UN Condemns Israel 15 Times, Rest of World 13. Here's an example of how fair the UN is towards Israel. Hell half the committees are run/sponsored by Arab countries.

Now do Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Tamir Pardo.

[PsYcNeT]

"We must preserve democracy and freedom in the Middle East"

Democracy and freedom in the Middle East:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1715025366329270677

[Scroopy Noopers]

^ I assume that is because of the active war going on. I assumed that would be typical in most countries (to shut down protests). However, the stupid “busses to gaza” line is so inflammatory and dumb. Crazy someone like that could be an authority.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

^ I assume that is because of the active war going on. I assumed that would be typical in most countries (to shut down protests). However, the stupid “busses to gaza” line is so inflammatory and dumb. Crazy someone like that could be an authority.

Right to Protest is a tenet of a liberal democracy. Effectively saying a specific type of protest is outright banned (during wartime or otherwise) is a step backwards and not something that should be handwaved.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

^ I assume that is because of the active war going on. I assumed that would be typical in most countries (to shut down protests). However, the stupid “busses to gaza” line is so inflammatory and dumb. Crazy someone like that could be an authority.

I think that definitely contributes to the issues overall. While Pro-Israel people pretend that anyone criticising Israel must have some dislike of Israeli citizens or Jews in general, what most of us actually see in relation to Israel is their government and their officials. Those are the people in the news every year, those are the people speaking for Israel. And, by and large, they’re ####ing terrible people.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Right to Protest is a tenet of a liberal democracy. Effectively saying a specific type of protest is outright banned (during wartime or otherwise) is a step backwards and not something that should be handwaved.

It’s not handwaived. It’s fact. We have this here.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

It’s not handwaived. It’s fact. We have this here.

I've never seen Canada enact a "Zero Tolerance" policy for protests.

Protests have been disbanded for being dangerous, illegally enacted, or in ways that infringe on the public (one can argue whether this is good or not, probably not because inconveniencing people is the point), but blanket-banning protests is extremely illiberal.

Pretending there aren't degrees of protest doesn't help this case much either. The way it's being phrased is say, a student group waving Palestinian flags and chanting "Stop the War" on campus could result in their deportation.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I've never seen Canada enact a "Zero Tolerance" policy for protests.

Protests have been disbanded for being dangerous, illegally enacted, or in ways that infringe on the public (one can argue whether this is good or not, probably not because inconveniencing people is the point), but blanket-banning protests is extremely illiberal.

Pretending there aren't degrees of protest doesn't help this case much either. The way it's being phrased is say, a student group waving Palestinian flags and chanting "Stop the War" on campus could result in their deportation.

Dude… they just had a bunch of terrorists come over the border and kill 1000+ people… 2 weeks ago. They have an active war going on at their land border. I think complaining about the temporary loss of peaceful protests completely ridiculous. Especially as, like I said, I imagine it’s typical. I don’t remember the last land border war in Canada, but you can bet the emergencies act would be enacted and “anti war” prostests banned while it’s ongoing. And yes, it obviously an infringement on freedom. That’s not something I am debating.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I've never seen Canada enact a "Zero Tolerance" policy for protests.

Protests have been disbanded for being dangerous, illegally enacted, or in ways that infringe on the public (one can argue whether this is good or not, probably not because inconveniencing people is the point), but blanket-banning protests is extremely illiberal

I agree that blanket-banning of protests is illiberal. However, Israel considers itself at war now, the way the U.S. did after Pearl Harbour. How many anti-war protests did the U.S. (or Canada) allow in 1942?

But I can’t imagine you really want to get into a liberal vs illiberal comparison of the Israeli state and Hamas. For example, we keep hearing about how half of Gaza’s population is under 17. Have people stopped to wonder why? It’s because birth rates are extraordinarily high. And birth rates obviously aren’t extraordinarily high out of optimism about the bright future Palestinian children have ahead of them - they’re extraordinarily high because Palestinian woman have zero reproductive autonomy. Take the restrictions that religious conservatives in the U.S. want to impose on women and then extend them beyond their wildest dreams and you’ll end up with something like the patriarchal society of Gaza today.

So out of curiosity, why does the ferociously misogynist religious ultraconservatism of Hamas and Arab jihadists in general seem to get a pass from some quarters? How ultra-conservative would Palestinian society have to get before they lost your sympathy? Or - as you’ve suggested in earlier posts here - does their power relative to Israel render them the more virtuous party in your eyes by default?

[curves2000]

I think some posters may be a little naïve at how strong of a right wing, tough stance and tough on Gaza group that is currently in government is right now in Israel. Like they are ****in principled in their fight, right or wrong. Hamas is 100% up front about their intensions without a doubt.

If it wasn't for back channel negotiations and probably outright demands from the US, EU and other powerful brokers, a huge portion of people in the Israeli government would be perfectly fine with not letting ANY aid or assistance into Gaza, of which nothing has officially come in. No food, medications, water, personal toiletries and more.

For comparison purposes to illustrate how just how principled and strong armed the current regime is, Putin in his Ukrainian invasion actually delivered slivers of aid from Russia on multiple occasions and filmed it for global and propaganda purposes. He is dead set on taking over that country, has killed and wounded probably close to a million people and displaced tens of millions more. He is delivering aid in some minor sorts.

I have enough friends on both sides of this debate and the hatred runs deep. There is very little logic or empathy in a lot of regards.

Sometimes I wonder, short of literally a massive natural disaster literally wiping everybody off the map in that area and starting fresh, how we actually go about fixing this problem in a small region like that which consumes huge amounts of resources and attention.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Dude… they just had a bunch of terrorists come over the border and kill 1000+ people… 2 weeks ago. They have an active war going on at their land border. I think complaining about the temporary loss of peaceful protests completely ridiculous. Especially as, like I said, I imagine it’s typical. I don’t remember the last land border war in Canada, but you can bet the emergencies act would be enacted and “anti war” prostests banned while it’s ongoing. And yes, it obviously an infringement on freedom. That’s not something I am debating.

Agreed, and the messaging was awful - threatening to send people on buses to Gaza, but in order to ensure stability its totally within Israels right and actually a prudent action to quell any serious protests. You cannot waste resources trying to quell unrest internally while fighting a war on multiple fronts.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I've never seen Canada enact a "Zero Tolerance" policy for protests.

Protests have been disbanded for being dangerous, illegally enacted, or in ways that infringe on the public (one can argue whether this is good or not, probably not because inconveniencing people is the point), but blanket-banning protests is extremely illiberal.

Pretending there aren't degrees of protest doesn't help this case much either. The way it's being phrased is say, a student group waving Palestinian flags and chanting "Stop the War" on campus could result in their deportation.

Because you've never seen Canada in a declared war with their bordering country?

Oh and I might add that this has in fact happened in Canada during the FLQ crisis.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Leondros

Agreed, and the messaging was awful - threatening to send people on buses to Gaza, but in order to ensure stability its totally within Israels right and actually a prudent action to quell any serious protests. You cannot waste resources trying to quell unrest internally while fighting a war on multiple fronts.

Probably the first reasonable thing they’ve done and they still turned it into a PR disaster. Completely unforced error.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

...While Pro-Israel people pretend that anyone criticising Israel must have some dislike of Israeli citizens or Jews in general...

No, they don't pretend and you shouldn't pretend otherwise either. Ah, well, you don't.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No issue with supporting/highlighting the humanitarian side of this thing. Its a huge and ugly problem.

Its when it gets convoluted with support for the actions of Hamas at the rallies/protests worldwide, that things get really gross.

I think many people have real trouble understanding the difference between the two things and it all gets really nasty at that point.

Interesting note, but I understand Katz is personally enraged and going to throw his weight around about this.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So out of curiosity, why does the ferociously misogynist religious ultraconservatism of Hamas and Arab jihadists in general seem to get a pass from some quarters? How ultra-conservative would Palestinian society have to get before they lost your sympathy? Or - as you’ve suggested in earlier posts here - does their power relative to Israel render them the more virtuous party in your eyes by default?

It doesn't, but we don't stand around pretending Hamas and Arab jihadists are a bastion of democracy in the middle east and worth of billions of dollars of foreign aid to prop up for that reason.

It's a false equivalence and you know it. Israel is held to a higher standard, and if you think they shouldn't be, then just say it.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Oh and I might add that this has in fact happened in Canada during the FLQ crisis.

So, 50+ years ago? How many people did Canada deport?

[Bagor]

This is what the Palestinian people need to see.

This deranged, deluded madman is prepared to have them all wiped out citing WW2 Russia, Vietnam and Afghanistan as examples.

Respect to the interviewer. You want the Arab countries to join in now but you didn't consult them before Oct 7th slaughter?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1715354932595847322

Need more of these no nonsense interviews. Not to give Hamas a voice but to allow the Palestinian people to see the nutjobs that they are and their indifference to having them slaughtered.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

It doesn't, but we don't stand around pretending Hamas and Arab jihadists are a bastion of democracy in the middle east and worth of billions of dollars of foreign aid to prop up for that reason.

It's a false equivalence and you know it. Israel is held to a higher standard, and if you think they shouldn't be, then just say it.



So, 50+ years ago? How many people did Canada deport?

The threatening of deportation is abhorrent and ridiculous. I feel like most people who have responded to you have agreed with that.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

No, they don't pretend and you shouldn't pretend otherwise either. Ah, well, you don't.

Oh god, the guy who posts “Woke AF” gifs has weighed in. Please help.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Oh god, the guy who posts “Woke AF” gifs has weighed in. Please help.

[Poster who is actually a gentile pretending to care about Jews because he hates Muslims more] "Actually you are the real Jew-hating racist"